Have you ever wondered how you could transform your traumatic experiences into something positive? That's precisely what Brooke Bralove, an accomplished psychotherapist and licensed clinical social worker, demystifies in our in-depth discussion on Accelerated Resolution Therapy (ART). With a keen focus on healing trauma, Brooke elaborates on ART's remarkable ability to replace distressing images and sensations with healing ones, empowering individuals to rewrite their narratives and move beyond trauma.
Our conversation dives beyond the surface, highlighting the practical applications of ART. Brooke's extensive experience in working with victims of domestic violence and other traumas tangibly illuminates the potency of ART. She shines a spotlight on how this revolutionary therapy can be a game-changer for individuals battling issues like sexual assault, chronic pain, and intrusive thoughts. Further, we delve into the training required to practice ART and how its transformative approach can help prevent therapist burnout.
We also explore the ethical side of ART, discussing its potential as a brief, add-on therapy that demands no medication or homework between sessions. Brooke shares deeply moving success stories from her practice, illustrating how ART has helped individuals minimize distress to an astonishing degree. By the end of our conversation, you'll gain valuable insight into how to find practitioners of ART and learn more about Brooke's remarkable work. So why wait? Join us for this enlightening exploration into the world of Accelerated Resolution Therapy.
If you, or someone you know, is having mental health challenges and is in need of assistance, please contact 988.
This podcast is meant to be a resource for the general public, as well as fellow therapists/psychologists. It is NOT meant to replace the meaningful work of individual or family therapy. Please seek professional help in your area if you are struggling. #breakthestigma #makewordsmatter #thingsyoulearnintherapy #thingsyoulearnintherapypodcast
Feel free to share your thoughts at www.makewordsmatterforgood.com or email me at Beth@makewordsmatterforgood.com
If you are a therapist or psychologist and want to be a guest on the show, please complete this form to apply: https://forms.gle/ooy8QirpgL2JSLhP6
www.bethtrammell.com
Have you ever wondered how you could transform your traumatic experiences into something positive? That's precisely what Brooke Bralove, an accomplished psychotherapist and licensed clinical social worker, demystifies in our in-depth discussion on Accelerated Resolution Therapy (ART). With a keen focus on healing trauma, Brooke elaborates on ART's remarkable ability to replace distressing images and sensations with healing ones, empowering individuals to rewrite their narratives and move beyond trauma.
Our conversation dives beyond the surface, highlighting the practical applications of ART. Brooke's extensive experience in working with victims of domestic violence and other traumas tangibly illuminates the potency of ART. She shines a spotlight on how this revolutionary therapy can be a game-changer for individuals battling issues like sexual assault, chronic pain, and intrusive thoughts. Further, we delve into the training required to practice ART and how its transformative approach can help prevent therapist burnout.
We also explore the ethical side of ART, discussing its potential as a brief, add-on therapy that demands no medication or homework between sessions. Brooke shares deeply moving success stories from her practice, illustrating how ART has helped individuals minimize distress to an astonishing degree. By the end of our conversation, you'll gain valuable insight into how to find practitioners of ART and learn more about Brooke's remarkable work. So why wait? Join us for this enlightening exploration into the world of Accelerated Resolution Therapy.
If you, or someone you know, is having mental health challenges and is in need of assistance, please contact 988.
This podcast is meant to be a resource for the general public, as well as fellow therapists/psychologists. It is NOT meant to replace the meaningful work of individual or family therapy. Please seek professional help in your area if you are struggling. #breakthestigma #makewordsmatter #thingsyoulearnintherapy #thingsyoulearnintherapypodcast
Feel free to share your thoughts at www.makewordsmatterforgood.com or email me at Beth@makewordsmatterforgood.com
If you are a therapist or psychologist and want to be a guest on the show, please complete this form to apply: https://forms.gle/ooy8QirpgL2JSLhP6
www.bethtrammell.com
All right, listener, welcome back.
Speaker 1:I'm your host, dr Beth Tramal, and this is Things you Learn in Therapy, and I am really happy to be able to connect with our guests today, and this topic is actually one that I don't know a whole lot about myself, and so this is going to be an exciting episode for me, and I hope, for you as well.
Speaker 1:I'm a licensed psychologist and an associate professor of psychology at Indiana University East, where I'm also the director of the Master's of Mental Health Counseling program, and I try to bring you know helpful information to the public, and so this podcast is meant to serve as sort of some outreach, but also for any fellow therapists or psychologists who are listening. Brooke and I are going to chat today about some things that might be really helpful to us, but if you're not a therapist, I'm hoping that this will also be helpful to give you a glimpse of an idea of a type of therapy that might be relevant for you. So, brooke, there's our introduction. How about you give us an introduction to you and maybe what you do, and then tell us one fun thing about you?
Speaker 2:Okay, first of all, thank you so much for having me. I'm happy to be here. So I'm Brooke Braylove. I'm a psychotherapist and licensed clinical social worker in Bethesda, maryland, right outside Washington DC, and I've been in private practice for 19 years. My background is in domestic violence and I really specialize in working with adults, couples groups. I'm a certified daring way facilitator, meaning I lead weekend workshops for women using Bray Brown's shame resilience curriculum. I'm also an asex certified sex therapist and this wonderful, exciting new modality that I'm going to talk about today Accelerated Resolution Therapy and one fun fact about me is that I love 90s hip hop. My favorite way to start the day actually is with some 90s hip hop.
Speaker 1:That is amazing. I do all of my cooking to 90s R&B.
Speaker 2:Oh, there you go, I know and they don't even make R&B anymore what happened?
Speaker 1:You know it's you and I probably are singing along, dancing along to the same kind of music.
Speaker 2:Exactly, that's awesome.
Speaker 1:I love that you are joining today because you have lots of expertise in what sounds like some really amazing different ways of doing therapy and I think that that's always. I think it's always good for people to hear like some different certifications or different ways of doing things. I mean, I'm a training director and I think about training generalists. First, you know, our program really trains generalists, but then I'm always talking to students about, you know, realizing, hey, once you get out in the field, doing some additional training or getting certified and different things really adds a lot to your practice 100%.
Speaker 2:I really sometimes don't know where I would be had I not had advanced training in psychodynamic psychotherapy.
Speaker 2:I did a wonderful training program at the Washington School of Psychiatry and, and you know, I think things are changing so rapidly in our field that if we don't get trained in all the sort of not all of them, but, you know find a few sort of modalities or issues that we really want to specialize in, you know, the field's just going to keep going and we're not going to be able to keep up with it.
Speaker 2:And I think, specifically now, in this time where we are really focused on trauma work and really understanding that there are limits to talk therapy and I'm a talk therapist, I've been doing this 19 years, so I love talking, ie, I love listening, so I believe in the power of talk therapy. But art, accelerated resolution therapy has really shown me the limitations of that and I really believe that just over the next 10, 20 years, you're going to see not necessarily that talk therapy is going to go away and disappear, but just a real continued emphasis on changing the body, to change the brain. I think that's where it's at. I think that's, you know, the sweet spot of the way where psychotherapy is moving to. I'm excited about it. Different but I'm excited.
Speaker 1:I love that, and I think about some of my students. I think about moments when I was sitting across from a client and what am I going to do? Oh my gosh, none of the things I'm saying are working, or gosh. It's week after week and my client doesn't seem to be getting better. And I've pulled out all of the you know my CBT things and I've pulled out all of my interpersonal you know things. And so now I'm like what else am I supposed to say?
Speaker 1:And so I love that we're having some new approaches, that that are growing in their evidence, right? I mean, I know that art is considered to be an evidence based approach, which I love. I actually looked it up before we decided we were going to talk about it, right, because there's some things out there that aren't aren't evidence based, and it's important to make sure that if you're a practitioner, you are focused on on doing those things that are rooted in evidence. Tell us just like, get us started on. Imagine we have listeners who don't know a whole lot about accelerated resolution therapy. Tell us what we need to know at first.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 2:So accelerated resolution therapy, also known as art or ART, you know whatever you want to call it, I call it art, as you said is an evidence based treatment modality and it uses rapid eye movement and voluntary image replacement to change the way the brain stores distressing images and sensations. So in as few as one to five sessions, a client can bring in an issue, you know, a traumatic incident. I can list out a lot of the things that are treats, but basically we work to calm the body using the bilateral brain stimulation of the rapid eye movements which are literally calming, and we basically take really distressing scenes, images, experiences, and we elicit strong feelings, strong sensations in the body and then we calm those sensations and then we replace those negative images with positive images and then we go home. So I think what is so exciting about art is how rapid it is. I rarely need to see someone for five sessions for them to find lasting relief, and so you know, at first of all I mean people are going to. A lot of people who are familiar with the mental health field might immediately be going.
Speaker 2:Well, that sounds a lot like EMDR. Yeah, it is similar to EMDR. There are some main differences, but the creator of art, lainey Rosenzweig, began art in 2008 after attending an EMDR training where she thought that's awesome, but I think I can do better. And so there are some differences. Emdr is usually more than one to five sessions. It also is focused on thoughts and feelings, whereas art is focused on images and sensations. There is a sort of more of a kind of protocol and script to art. Emdr is a little bit more meandering. It can kind of take you different places, and the thing I really love about art is that it's called Accelerated Resolution Therapy, because there actually is a resolution at the end of every session, so people are going to lead feeling better. I mean, I don't know about you, but, having done talk therapy for so long, a lot of times you open something up. The client will actually begin to, you know, show strong emotion and they're five minutes left in the session. You know we call that doorknob therapy, where they kind of get somewhere, and then you're like, oh, time out, we got. You know we have to wrap up, which doesn't feel good to any therapist. But with art you're going to have a resolution and people leave feeling really different than when they came in. And you know I love what you were saying about like this is the rabbit that I pull out of you know my, you know hat. It feels like that.
Speaker 2:And when I am stuck with someone because art is extremely useful when you have clients who are stuck whether it's stuck in a you know bad relationship, stuck in motivation or you know just feel stuck, stuck in depression, stuck in anxiety it's really good for that. And so it is exciting that I can both treat long term patients who I've seen for many years with talk therapy and I can say, well, hold on, you know, this thing we've talked about for the last 11 years. I have a new idea about how to approach it and it's really cool because it's working with a lot of these long term patients. And then there are also a lot of people who just come to me specifically for art. I see them for one to five sessions and they go on their merry way and I I feel great that I help them and they don't need to stick around very long, which is really different. I mean, I love the relationships and long term psychodynamic psychotherapy, but it is pretty cool to meet somebody, do an intake session and then do another session with them of art and get them better and get them on to live their life. I mean it's really exciting and I will tell you. I mean you can tell I'm really excited about this. And the thing that is so wonderful is that I literally have to hold back tears in art sessions because I'm watching people change something that they never believed was ever possible, right?
Speaker 2:So specifically when you have like complex PTSD so let's say you've got someone who was abused for many years of their childhood or dealt with childhood emotional neglect for many years they can literally free themselves just by changing the images. And the brain doesn't need the images to be real to be like oh that's cool story, let's hang on to that. I like that more than the reality of what happened. And if you pair that with calming those terrible negative sensations in the body, then when there's a trigger, the person doesn't get physically triggered in the same way anymore. And so again, I have countless experiences of this where, you know, I had a woman who's having difficulty co-parenting with her ex husband.
Speaker 2:You know she gets extremely anxious when she's in contact with him, she gets agitated, she gets emotional. And she came in. She's like there's nothing I can do about this. I'm just triggered every time. Well, now she came in after we did, I think, just one session on her relation, you know the co-parenting relationship and she said I am completely neutral. Now, anytime he texts me, phones me, totally neutral. My body does not respond in the same way and, frankly, that's magical.
Speaker 1:It's magical. Ok, so I have a couple of questions. I love this. One thing that intrigues me about this that you even mentioned, is this voluntary image replacement, that that's part of it, and I think about the number of clients that I have had over the years that are like I can't get the image out of my mind. I mean, that's that's kind of at the root of what you're saying, right, like that's the heart of what we're doing, is we're we're saying that image? Well, I guess I should ask like that image may still come up. So we can't necessarily erase memories, but what we can do is replace them with a different feeling that comes, or a different sensation that comes in the body with this new image. Yeah, so is it that way or slightly different?
Speaker 2:So, yeah, no, it's a great question, I totally appreciate it. And people, a lot of people, will say well, like you can't ever forget about that. And here's what I say to that In our, we say keep the knowledge, lose the pain. You will never forget the facts. I mean, let's, let's be specific. So someone has a sexual assault in college. You will never forget the fact that you were sexually assaulted in college and, frankly, we would never want to forget something that is about that is real, right, yeah, yeah. But our brains have no use for the negative sensations, the negative images and the traumatic nature of that entire incident. We do not need to hold on to any of that, to keep the facts. And so, while again, it's funny that you know that use the word erase, because we don't erase the facts, but we actually do erase the specific images yeah, literally they're gone sometimes.
Speaker 2:So in a session you know we'll have somebody kind of try to erase it and then we'll say, well, what would you, what would your brain rather have happened? You know, what do you wish had happened? What do you wish had happened that night? And this is where their healing really happens, because they're creating the image that would be healing. So if someone had an image, you know, related to a sexual assault, they might replace it with their favorite beach sunset image, which is awesome. And so any time they were to maybe get triggered, they would mostly go right to that sunset picture. But they also might say well, actually what I really wish had happened was that I was able to physically defend myself, kick this person off of me, call the police and have the police come and arrest him. Well, guess what? Then they imagine that it's whatever the client needs to heal themselves.
Speaker 2:And actually my assessment skills from doing art have gotten so good because I will have only spent 45 minutes with someone and then we'll do an art session and I will have to try to understand what will heal them. So sometimes they'll try to erase it, but, like I can tell, it's just not, it's not working great. And then I'll say, ok, I know I don't know you very well, but do you think your father might need to come in and kick that guy's ass? Or do you think that you need to tell this person why they're hurting you and stand up for yourself and have that person apologize, or you know what do you need? And then you can see them kind of light up when they figure it out, and then I'm getting goosebumps, bumps. I never can talk about this without goosebumps, without goosebumps never. It's never happened. But I will see them and they will. They will get this huge smile on their face and then I go, we got it.
Speaker 2:Yeah because I can see it. And sometimes people will start laughing because they've just replaced it. And again, I think what's important to understand, too, is the way I came to. Art was as a client, I had a very traumatic breakup that I absolutely could not move beyond in 2017. I mean just kind of debilitated by it. You know, someone suggested this thing I'd never heard of, also called art. I did two sessions and I just got better. I was just able to move on. I wasn't stuck with the images, I wasn't stuck in the depression, the crying, nothing.
Speaker 2:And you know, it's really amazing the way you can transform something by changing the story, the way you want to remember it, and it's just a very empowering process and I think, especially for people who've really lost hope, I definitely get people who come and say try everything, you name it and you know. Then they go through the DBT and the CBT and the you know, blah, blah, blah. The EMDR, you know, and I sometimes feel like this is it for them. And I'm certainly not saying it works for every single person, because I don't believe there's any one modality that works for everyone, but it really does work most of the time and when it doesn't work. It is usually because the person is actually not ready to get better or not ready to give up, maybe an identity related to this. So sometimes with people with chronic pain it works really well with chronic pain, but their identity can be really built around a diagnosis. Maybe they have a lot of community from this diagnosis, maybe they're a part of support groups, and so sometimes it can be terrifying to get better because you might lose that. And so there are, you know, ways that there are times where it can be really challenging, but in general, if you are motivated to get rid of some of this, that's what it takes.
Speaker 2:And back to sort of what happened with my art was when we talk about erasing images. There was a moment when I was doing it where I was kind of getting rid of an image and a few seconds later I didn't even remit. Literally five seconds later I didn't remember the image that five seconds before I was actively erasing. I mean, literally I couldn't find it anymore and people will be in my office and they'll go. Where'd that go? I don't understand where that went. I was like I don't know. You just made it go away. So let's keep it moving. Let's keep it moving.
Speaker 1:Let's not try to go back there and pick it up. Yeah, okay, so can you share a little bit of sort of the science of that? We don't have to go into like all of the deep nitty gritty stuff If folks really want to get that far in the weeds. But I think even folks who are listening may be like, well, that just sounds impossible. Or maybe there's, like you said you brought up, that it feels kind of hopeless, right, like some people who've been managing these horrible images every day feel really hopeless. How do you address the folks that are like Brooke, that doesn't even make sense, like that's impossible. That's impossible. You must have had an easier case than me. Or how do you address the folks that are maybe cynical or Sure unbelieving?
Speaker 2:Yeah, oh well, I welcome them first of all. I mean, how could you not be skeptical of something like this, you know? Because, also, what I didn't say in the beginning is the thing that makes art so different and why it's so, I think, why people want to do it so much is you don't have to talk about your trauma. Trauma survivors are exhausted from telling their story over and over again or doing exposure therapy where they have to talk about it, and so I tell people after our intake session. That's the most they'll ever talk. I won't need to hear their story ever again. I do like to know it once. I could help someone just as successfully by not even knowing what they're working on, but I want to be deeply connected to someone and I want to, you know, shepherd them through this process. So I do want to know what they're working on, but we never have to talk about it again.
Speaker 2:So I think there are a couple things to remember about what art is basically based on. So when we have a trauma, we go into fight, flight, freeze or fawn, which is that the sympathetic nervous system goes completely offline and the parasympathetic nervous system gets truly activated, and that's why, again, we have these physical reactions that are, you know, heart racing, you know palm sweating, lump in our throat, feel like we're going to vomit, and all these things. That's the parasympathetic nervous system. So what we want to get the sympathetic nervous system back online, which is the rest and digest. The way we do that is through this rapid eye movement. And there are a couple thoughts about the rapid eye movement.
Speaker 2:One is, and again, bilateral brain simulation. One is that rapid eye movement replicates REM sleep, which is where memories are consolidated in the brain overnight, basically. So one theory is we are basically having you do a process while you're awake that you would normally do while you're asleep. So we do that while you're conscious and while you can be led through a script. That's very healing. The other idea is that you get the right and left brain, you know the hemispheres, talking to each other. So you've got the emotional side and the you know rational side finally talking to each other, which is what never happens during a traumatic incident, because your intellectual thinking, calm brain, I don't know, where it goes, but it is gone and we all know that, right, we all have that.
Speaker 2:We've all had that experience at some point where we can't think we're just inner bodies. We're so activated and so art basically allows for this processing to occur while you're working through a script to heal you, rather than waiting for overnight where, frankly, those images get stored. But it's the negative images that are being stored. And what we also know is that each time you talk about a negative experience or a trauma, you actually make it worse in your brain, and so we don't ask you to talk about it more than you know the intake, because it's not going to make it better, it's going to make it worse over time. I'm not saying that talk therapy or talking about trauma is ill advised at all. It's incredibly healing for people. I 100% believe in being seen, being heard, being attended to. You know empathic listening and how healing that can be, but at a certain point it ain't going to fix the negative images that are stuck. That has to be through the brain and the body, not through a sharing, and so that's kind of the science of it.
Speaker 1:I love. Earlier you had also mentioned that all sorts of therapies exist, because all sorts of therapies work for all different people. You know your therapy is as unique as you are to the world, and so I love that we're, you know, talking about how. Yeah, for some people, you know, continuing to retell it is going to make them feel like it's not helpful, and often that is what happens for people, right, they say I just don't want to talk about it again, I don't know why I should see another therapist, and so I think there are a lot of people that resonate with that idea, and so having an option for not having to re go through it over and over and over maybe really empowering for some people. Though I know some people feel validated in sharing the story. They might feel very empowered by having, like you said, an empathetic listener who is there to be with them and hearing the story in a very healing way, and so I love that. We're kind of talking about both sides here.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, yeah, I mean, and both end right. Just, you know a little of this, a little of that and you know. When you say, how do I? So, what do I do with skeptics, again I welcome them and I say it would be strange if you didn't have doubts that this could work so great. And I really like to just say to people, the absolute worst thing that happens is you took an hour and tried something new to heal yourself and it didn't work. There's nothing negative that can occur. This is not hypnosis. You are in full control of the session.
Speaker 2:It's very creative, it's very. You know, we talk a lot in metaphors. Some of it when you, once you get through the parts of the, you know, remembering the trauma can actually be fun and playful. And so, again, that's why you will sometimes see people and hear people laugh and get kind of giddy. Because, I mean, I'll give you a great example. So I worked with a man who was having major confidence issues. He just didn't feel good about himself and so he wasn't putting himself out in the world professionally. And when he kind of chose new images to replace the images of him feeling badly about himself, he decided that he was a beetle during beetle mania, right, and I thought that was one of the most creative things ever. So, right, people were just you know whatever, lining up and screaming, you know, and I mean, and he was, he had a ball with that and that's I mean, that's just beautiful, you know. I do want to explain a little bit about kind of what what art treats, though, because I do, I think so.
Speaker 2:While we often refer to it as a trauma therapy, it is not just for trauma. At first, when I was trained, I was like, okay, cool, I've got a new trauma tool. No way, I've got a tool for anyone and everything, literally. So I've used it myself personally. I have used it for, you know, child abuse, difficult relationships with family members. It works for dyslexia, adhd, ocd, phobias, generalized anxiety, depression, chronic illness, chronic pain, body image.
Speaker 2:I worked for 60 minutes with two different women and their entire view of themselves has changed since we worked on just how they felt about their own bodies and any place you're stuck, so difficulty with motivation or not moving up in your career, you know, figuring out what's getting in your way and what you're afraid of. There's just a variety of ways to kind of approach all these different things. I do think a sweet spot for art is single incident trauma, because usually those are the most vivid. So lots and lots of people come see me after a car accident. Or you know, I had a young man come see me in three weeks earlier. He had been held up at gunpoint and hadn't been able to go to work, wasn't sleeping, wasn't eating and was, you know, barely functioning, and we did two art sessions and he was fully back to work, 100% calm, walking around his neighborhood with no problem. So that is a sweet spot for sure.
Speaker 1:It's so fascinating. Let's talk on both sides of the spectrum here, in terms of if I'm a listener and I'm like, wow, I might want to try to find somebody who does this, how do I find somebody who does this? And let's say I'm a listener who thinks Well, I'm a social worker, I'm a therapist, I'm a psychologist where should I go for training? So can you answer those two questions?
Speaker 2:Yes, absolutely, and they can be found at the same place, which is great, so great. If you want to try art, which I really really, really encourage people to do, especially if they've done a lot of talk therapy and they're like a few things that they're just not moving through or past, they can go to accelerated resolution therapycom and there's a search that you can do by state. I think there are about 6500 therapists, art therapists in the world. There's a lot in Canada and the US, and so you can search by state. Also can be done virtually or in person. There are some art therapists who don't work virtually and you know I do and I have found it works equally as well, which actually sort of surprises me. But I'm blown away. It works equally as well, and I especially know this because I've had two clients who have done both virtual and in person and they self report that you know they like both the same. Yeah, great. So that's how you can find a practitioner. And then I definitely encourage people to get trained in it. It's a really straightforward kind of easy training that you can get going practicing art right after. It's a three day training. There are three levels of training, but the first, basic training is three days. They're offered throughout the country and in Canada. And again, you can go to accelerated resolution therapy, calm and find out. You know all the dates that are coming up and it's so worth it.
Speaker 2:And I want to explain to therapists that the great thing about art for me is it's really preventing burnout, because I am not sitting and listening to trauma all day the way I used to. So I am just. I think I'm going to be around a lot longer as a therapist. I mean, I really think this is like increasing the number of years I'm going to be able to work because I'm not burning out. In fact it's the opposite and I'm incredibly invigorated and much more passionate than I've ever been about my work.
Speaker 2:And you know, look, we see people long term, many of us and it is not always that you're seeing radical shifts. The shifts are so tiny sometimes it, you know, you can't even see them. I mean it's still happening. But I mean you know you put in a lot of years sometimes with people and you just have to, you know, keep saying I'm showing up for this person and they are getting better, even though they slide back sometimes. But in art I mean you can, you know they self report how they're feeling at the beginning of the session and how they're feeling at the end. And it is not uncommon then on a you know sudscale that someone starts at a nine or a 10 in his, at a zero or one after 60 minutes and that feels great. And I mean we also deserve to feel that we're making an impact. That's a good thing, and so I think it's really motivating and I definitely encourage therapists to look into it. It's amazing.
Speaker 1:You know it's interesting. I talk with, you know I supervise graduate students and sometimes they come, you know, to supervision and say, look, they're not getting better. I don't think I'm doing a good job. And, you know, especially early clinicians are like maybe I should refer them. You know, I think we in training forget that, or maybe we don't forget, we just don't necessarily realize that referring clients happens much rarer than like your initial textbooks tell you, right, Right, and so I can really resonate with this idea of though it isn't about us as therapists.
Speaker 1:There is something rewarding about feeling like you're a part of helping people move along the journey. Right, I mean, we go into this field because we want to help people. And, yeah, we're here for the 10 year long client if that's what that client needs, and we're also here to help people move more quickly if that is, you know, part of what is healing to them. And you're right, it does kind of help keep us motivated, particularly when you have some you know sessions with a client that are hard. I mean, that's just the truth. Our job is hard. I'm hearing these things over and over, even if it's not trauma, just sometimes hearing struggle every day, all day long is hard.
Speaker 2:It is hard, yeah, yeah. And what I want to say too, is the real. To me, the greatest thing is that I've had a couple of experiences where someone comes to me for art, you know, like to work on. Someone had several sexual assaults, unfortunately, really, really difficult growing up and adolescence, and so I'm thinking, okay, I'll see them for a few sessions and that's it.
Speaker 2:Well, this client was so, was so beyond excited that she got better that she then stayed around for months and months and basically kept being each week being like all right, what are we tackling today? So this one you know person tackled sexual assault. You know difficulty with her father growing up, chronic pain, chronic illness, intrusive images, ocd behavior and she just kept. It was like whack-a-mole. She's like, well, this thing came up and literally she resolved every single one of them. It was incredible. And so there've been a few people when they see how well it works, they just they don't want to stop, they don't need to, they stay for other things because they're getting so much better, and that is really neat to see.
Speaker 1:I wrote down. I was thinking about this too. Just, you kind of alluded to this earlier about some of the power of therapy is building a genuine connection with another person. And I know that in some of the reading that I was doing and some of the stuff you're kind of saying is, you know, in one to five sessions that may be all they need and that doesn't really lend itself for, like you know, building a therapeutic relationship. And so are there maybe certain personalities, Are there certain things where a person might benefit and appreciate art, but they also might benefit and appreciate slash, need longer term relationship that we're going to put kind of traditional talk therapy sort of does. What are your thoughts there?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, you know it's funny because you're, as you're sitting there, I'm like gosh. Why do I feel so connected to my art clients though? And I do, but you are correct, I only see some of them for a few sessions. Yeah, and of course it's not the same deep, ongoing relationship, it's just not. But when you're with someone in and again, shepherding them through some of the worst images of their entire lives, the worst moments, there's kind of a sacred connection that actually happens, certainly during that time. But yes, of course there are people who I think most people can benefit from, a long term, genuine connection with a caring adult. So, yeah, I mean, a lot of times also, other therapists refer people to me and they'll call and they'll say, hey, I've been working with this person for a lot of years, but they just can't seem to get over their divorce four years ago. Do you think art would be helpful? And I'm like, absolutely.
Speaker 2:And so I see them for a few sessions and then they just resume they just go, they go right back to their therapy, and that I love, because then I'm also helping my colleagues, which feels like in a place where they feel stuck with a client, and that feels really good too. And so I actually have a few people who just keep referring to me, because it's when they're really stuck with someone and I just kind of come in and try to address that one thing and then they can keep doing their work, but they don't have to stay focused on that one thing anymore.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I love that you bring that up. I actually had that question, so I'm glad that you clarified. I think, especially early clinicians who might be listening we often say, like you can't see more than one therapist at once, but this is the ethical way of having two therapists that are part of your treatment. Your role is an art therapists specifically. You do just that work and then they go back to their kind of treating therapist that was with them before.
Speaker 2:That's such a good point. I mean, you're absolutely right. Right, I would never tell someone to see two therapists, especially to talk therapists. But we are doing something that is totally it's time limited, it's specific, it's focused and as soon as we're done and by the I mean they continue with their treatment and it's not like they even have to stop seeing their therapist. And another thing that's great about art is, unlike some other modalities, you do not have to go off your medication for any reason. You don't have to make any changes to you know any part of your life. There is no homework in between sessions, there's no prep other than me explaining the process to you, so it really can just be a great sort of add on brief therapy.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I love that when I was practicing more frequently, I would have colleagues that would do MDR and we would. Essentially it's collaboration, right? It's two therapists who are collaborating and we work closely together during that time and then we thank you for your kind of piece in the treatment, right? I mean, for me it's akin to your medical doctor and then you have, you know, something on your skin that you get removed and you take care of that. You see the dermatologist and then you go back to your doctor for the rest of your needs. I find it to be a very similar process and, for whatever reason, I don't know, it feels like it's complicated and it really doesn't have to be as long as everybody knows. This is clearly my role, this is clearly the time limit that we're going to be doing and we're going to collaborate along the way.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely, and I do. Some of my favorite phone calls are when another therapist has referred someone to me and I see them and I call them and I'm like you won't believe what happened. She started at an eight and she ended at a one. And I get so excited and they're like are you serious? She did that. She hasn't moved. She's been crying for a year and I'm like, nope, she in this, she, you know, so it's. They're excited and it's fun to like deliver that good news to them too.
Speaker 1:It's really fun, okay, so, as we wrap up here, any last thing that you're like oh, this is something that I meant to say and we didn't get a chance to talk about it before we go.
Speaker 2:No, I mean again, I just I really, you know, it's almost like I mean, obviously I'm a fan of art and I want people to go and, you know, do it and learn it, but also just really recognizing that for trauma, specifically for triggered you know behavior, for things that go on, you have to address it through the body and to really pursue you know modalities that support that and I and again, I hope it's art, but any of them will do- Okay, so you already told us about how we can find out more about art.
Speaker 1:Tell listeners how they can learn more about you.
Speaker 2:Sure, so you can find out about me at my website, brookbraylovecom, and Instagram is brookbraylove psychotherapy and yeah have a lot of other things that I do, but I'm really, really happy to be able to share art with you today.
Speaker 1:That's great. Thank you for being here. What a great episode for both a client who might be listening, the general public who might just be kind of paying attention here, and for fellow therapists and other helpers. So I'm grateful you took the time today to be with us and listener. I'm grateful for you, as always, to take your time to listen in and until next time, stay safe and stay well, brooke, thanks for being here. Thank you.