Ep74: Understanding The Magic Of Play Therapy With Dr. Colleen Martinez

Ever wondered how playing with toys can be therapeutic? Prepare to be amazed by my insightful chat with Dr. Colleen Martinez, a licensed clinical social worker and registered play therapist supervisor. We delve into the heart of play therapy, illuminating the differences in approach between generalists and registered play therapists, while celebrating the significant role of the Association for Play Therapy in advocating for effective methodologies and high standards.

Our journey takes us through a vibrant spectrum of play therapy types, from child-directed to therapist-directed techniques, demystifying how the simple act of play can facilitate communication and healing. Dr. Martinez generously shares a personal account of using child-centered play therapy to support preschoolers with speech delays—a testament to the transformative power of play. We underscore the necessity of a safe space and an assortment of toys and materials, reinforcing the notion that play is indeed the language of children.

In the latter part of our conversation, we explore the nuances of establishing trust swiftly when working with children and their families. Dr. Martinez emphasizes the importance of demonstrating knowledge about various techniques and related research to lend credibility to the therapist’s role. We discuss treatment plans as a tool for setting realistic expectations and providing swift and sensitive solutions that uphold the comfort and confidence of the child and family. Lastly, Dr. Martinez shares valuable insights on marketable skills for play therapists that are truly a goldmine for anyone interested in this noble profession. This is an episode you wouldn't want to miss if you're interested in the magic of play therapy and child-directed play.

If you, or someone you know, is having mental health challenges and is in need of assistance, please contact 988.


This podcast is meant to be a resource for the general public, as well as fellow therapists/psychologists. It is NOT meant to replace the meaningful work of individual or family therapy. Please seek professional help in your area if you are struggling. #breakthestigma #makewordsmatter #thingsyoulearnintherapy #thingsyoulearnintherapypodcast

Feel free to share your thoughts at www.makewordsmatterforgood.com or email me at Beth@makewordsmatterforgood.com

If you are a therapist or psychologist and want to be a guest on the show, please complete this form to apply: https://forms.gle/ooy8QirpgL2JSLhP6

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:12

Hey listener, welcome back. I'm your host, dr Beth Tramel. I'm a licensed psychologist and an associate professor of psychology at Indiana University, east Go Red Wolves. I'm the director of the Masters in Mental Health Counseling program and I love to talk all things therapy, I love all things growth promotion, I love all things mental health and I love that I get to talk to smart people, like my guest Colleen today, about things you learn in therapy. You know, I created this podcast to try to bring high quality folks to you with high quality information, both for the general public but for fellow therapists and psychologists, and today's topic is one that we haven't had on the podcast yet. I know it is a popular idea for a lot of students, but I think it's also even for veteran therapists who practice mostly talk therapy.

Speaker 1: 1:11

I think this could be a really fun episode to kind of learn about. So today I have Colleen Martinez with me. Dr Colleen Martinez, you know I always say I'm just Beth, you know, but the title matters, the title matters. So Dr Colleen is with us today. Thank you for being here again. You have been a guest two other times and actually this episode is going to be a two-parter because we have so many things to say about play therapy and child directed play, so this is part one with Dr Colleen. Tell us a little about you, in case folks haven't listened to the other episodes that you've done, and, as always, tell us one fun thing about you.

Speaker 2: 1:50

Absolutely so. Thanks again for having me, beth. So I am Colleen Martinez, licensed clinical social worker and registered play therapist supervisor. I'm also an assistant professor at Ramapo College of New Jersey. So go road runners. I've been a psychotherapist for children for over 25 years and I never learned about play therapy until after graduate school. So I'm really passionate about bringing knowledge about play therapy to my students as undergrads and grad students and early career people, so that they can get these skills and this knowledge earlier in their careers.

Speaker 2: 2:32

Yeah, and a fun fact about me that you don't know, beth I have seen a license plate from every state in the country. It is so fun. So how do you keep track? Yep, so when I had a young child, probably preschool age, we were always looking for ways to keep her kind of happy and engaged in, you know, long road trips or just, you know, doing something fun. And so I printed out a map of all 50 states that had the initials of each state, and every time we saw a new license plate, we colored it in, she colored it in, and it took years. I think it took almost 10 years, and Hawaii and Alaska were elusive for the longest time, but then we went out to the Pacific Northwest and we were driving around in Oregon and Washington State and we finally saw a license plate from Hawaii and from Alaska On the same trip. I don't think so, two separate trips, but when we I think maybe Hawaii was the last it was literally thrilling. It was almost like winning the lottery that is so fun.

Speaker 1: 3:49

Yeah, that's so fun and I think about you know, the first episode you came and we were kind of talking about those early experiences and how they shape us right, and I think about how, for your child, it's like license plates are kind of going to be her thing forever.

Speaker 2: 4:07

We do notice them a lot yeah.

Speaker 1: 4:10

Interesting. You know, it's like I wonder what my kids are going to remember. You know, like the things that they'll remember because of even something as simple as this right that this became sort of like this family. You know competition to like find all of these things. I love that. It is like a together thing. I think that's the thing we remember about our childhood. Those like shared history Exactly that shared history. Oh, that's brilliant. I love that. Yeah, that's so fun. Okay, so I also love play therapy. I am not a certified.

Speaker 2: 4:51

Is it certification Registered?

Speaker 1: 4:53

Registered, okay, I'm not. So, see, see, I'm not that. So I'm not a registered play therapist. I practice play therapy, but maybe let's start with sort of the difference between you know, the practice of play therapy for those of us who are trained like a generalist, what would be sort of the like demarcation and and do those folks who are registered play therapists get offended when people like me say, yeah, I practice some principles of play therapy, but I'm not a true play therapist?

Speaker 2: 5:29

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 5:29

So that's a really good question and and I think a lot of people are unclear about that so the thing that I can start with, beth, is by telling you about the credential I hold and where it comes from.

Speaker 2: 5:42

So the registered play therapist credential is administered by the Association for play therapy, and they are a phenomenal organization that serves people internationally. They have a much larger mission than I'll be able to share with you, but one of their missions is to promote the use of effective play therapies and to kind of elevate the standards of play therapy that is provided, and so they created this credential registered play therapist. And when a mental health professional pursues and earns this credential, it basically says that they've invested a significant amount of time and training and they have a significant amount of experience and supervision in using play therapy, and it's a pretty rigorous credential and it is something that you know. You can earn certificates all over the place. You know. I go to this two-hour workshop, I do this webinar online. I can get a certificate. The registered play therapist credential is as much more rigorous than that.

Speaker 2: 6:51

The process, at a minimum, is two years long. They also time limit it so that if you're earning this credential, you need to earn it within seven years. There's a lot of really specific requirements Now. That being said, I talk to hundreds of people about play therapy and I tell them that not everyone needs to become a registered play therapist. You can be a graduate student learning play therapy skills. You can be a clinician who uses play therapy techniques, and that's good. That's wonderful If you're doing more developmentally appropriate. You're doing more effective work if you're working with children and you're using these techniques.

Speaker 2: 7:36

So why would someone want to like pursue this credential? Because they've decided that this is going to be their specialization Working with young children through play is it for them, it is a major priority. They might want to pursue this very long and rigorous process. So I became a registered play therapist and supervisor because I found my purpose in life and I knew that treating children was always going to be my priority. It was an investment in my learning and my professional development.

Speaker 2: 8:12

As you know, licensed mental health professionals always have to do continuing education. So when I did my continuing education, and when I continue to do it now, it's usually always in the area of play therapy. So kind of the top of the food chain in terms of rigor is being registered play therapist supervisor, so I can supervise and train others. Then there's the registered play therapist. There's also a school-based registered play therapist credential and that's for school counselors to earn. But then there's also the.

Speaker 2: 8:46

I'm a clinician, I'm very experienced in working with children and I believe in play. I'm not going to pursue that credential because I don't need to, but I am learning more about using play therapy. I'm using these techniques. So I think the best practice is, if you're using play therapy techniques, if you're using play therapy skills, to refer to it. That way, the RPP credential is like protected and trademarked. You certainly can't say that you're a registered play therapist unless you hold that credential. Like saying that I use play therapy skills, I use play therapy techniques, my work is informed by play therapy principles is very appropriate. It's great, can I?

Speaker 1: 9:28

help a little bit. Yeah, that's very helpful. Yeah, and I actually took a course in my master's program in play therapy which was amazing. It wasn't a required course, it was an elective, but it was great and it really did, I think, teach some of the kind of philosophy and structure around play therapy, that it's not just playing in therapy. I think maybe you can start talking a little bit more about that. How is play therapy technique different than just playing with toys in therapy with children?

Speaker 2: 10:11

Yep, I love it, I love that question. But first of all I just have to say I'm thrilled that you had a course in your grad program I know, isn't it amazing?

Speaker 1: 10:20

So your degree is in. So my master's degree is in mental health counseling, gotcha, and then my PhD is in school psych. But yeah, in my master's training I took the elective play therapy. It was amazing.

Speaker 2: 10:33

I love it. So social workers people who have their MSW very often work with children over the course of their careers. But schools of social work MSW programs are far less likely to offer a play therapy course than school psychology or counseling psychology, and it's one of my missions to make it happen. So at a previous institution, I helped to develop a play therapy course, and now where I am at Ramseyville College of New Jersey, we have a three credit play therapy course for MSW students and listen to this, beth. This is another fun fact. I just got a grant to build 10 traveling playrooms so each of my students can borrow a traveling playroom to do to practice some play therapy skills so that when they're graduating with their MSW, they're going to have so much more experience in working with kids in this way, and that's the kind of stuff that that keeps me going every day.

Speaker 1: 11:37

And so well, yeah.

Speaker 2: 11:39

So what's the difference between being playful in session and doing play therapy? I'll start telling you about my career and how I got to where I am. So my very first clinical job it was a year after my master's degree. I was working with kids in a child and family clinic and I bought in board games and crayons and I decorated my office in, you know, developmentally appropriate ways. Lion King was big at the time, so I had a Lion King poster. That was a long, long time ago and I thought you know, this is this, is it? I'm doing kid friendly therapy? Yeah, and I would play games with kids while we talked about stuff. And then I started going to trainings on play therapy and I my mind was blown. So what I was doing was developmentally appropriate. It was good, it was meeting kids where they were. But what I learned in training is that the play itself could be the communication mechanism, not just something to do while we're doing the talk while we're doing the work.

Speaker 2: 12:53

Yeah, yeah. The play could be the way to communicate. The play itself could be the way to heal. The play itself is often enough to do the work that we need to do. Yeah, and it was like a light bulb went off in my head and my life changed at that point, and and that's when I decided that, yep, going forward, this is going to be my main focus of how I develop my career.

Speaker 2: 13:27

I was really fortunate in New Jersey at the time. There was a very robust local network of play therapists who would come in and do trainings, and that ebbs and flows over the years, yeah, but I was really fortunate to attend workshops full day workshops, week long workshops with some of the really renowned people in play therapy, and at the same time, I also worked at an organization that had a pretty good budget for trainings, and so one of the life changing experiences I had was training with somebody named Ileana Gill. Do you know her name? I do know her name, yeah, so Ileana Gill is one of the most intuitive, insightful, gentle healers and educators that I've ever experienced, and so she's still doing some training. She's in the Washington DC, fairfax, virginia area. She's nearing full retirement, I believe, but she would do these weekend long workshops where we go down for Friday, saturday and Sunday and train for three days straight. And I'm a very skeptical kind of logical person and I left her workshops feeling like this is magic.

Speaker 2: 14:56

It's amazing when you start to use the language that is appropriate to who you're working with. So that light bulb was just like wait a minute. Play. It is how children communicate, it is how children learn, it's how they grow. It just makes sense.

Speaker 2: 15:17

For how many years in college and graduate school I was taught to like sit and talk on the couch, blah, blah, blah, yes. But then I'm reminded that this is natural. It's almost as if your only language is French and I'm bringing you into therapy and I'm saying you need to learn how to speak English before I can do therapy with you. Yeah, instead of just providing therapy in French because that's the language you speak, right, so good. So it is wonderful to be playful with children and it is wonderful to engage in play during therapy, but play therapy is a much more complex, sophisticated way of using play as therapy. And you know, because I say play therapy so much, I do want to clarify that there are many different ways of doing play therapy and there are many different types of play therapy. You could literally go into 20 different offices with 20 credentialed play therapists and they'll do 20 different kinds of play therapy.

Speaker 1: 16:30

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 16:30

And it's not as if one is better. There are many different disciplines. One of the first ways that I organize my thoughts on this is child directed play therapy and therapist directed play therapy. The child directed play therapy we often call it non-directive. It's much more child led play based therapy. The other category of play therapy is therapist. Therapist directed or what we call directive play therapy. So I'd like to give you an example of directive play therapy, just so you can kind of get an idea. Yeah, I'd love that.

Speaker 2: 17:11

So in directive play therapy, I believe in the value of play. I know that it's a way to teach, I know that it's a way to communicate. It's definitely the most appropriate developmentally, developmentally appropriate way to work with kids. And so, as the therapist, I decide okay, I want the child to learn this today, I want them to work a little bit on their self control. So I'm going to bring in an activity, a play based activity, because I know it might help them with their self control. So I'm going to bring in I don't know what. What do I bring in? Jenga?

Speaker 2: 17:50

or something like that. Yeah, and so I am. I am planfully thinking about what play based thing do I need to do to help them learn something. I think a lot of your listeners probably do this. They bring in a board game because they want to teach like to burn, take, take turns or you know something else to deal with frustration, tolerance, so that that kind of stuff, or even I'm going to bring in a game that helps teach coping skills. Yep, that's directive. Play therapy Great. So probably the most kind of common use, like in in school settings with school counselors or social workers or people who who maybe don't have a bunch of training, but they're just like this, this makes sense, or I've seen a workshop on this, or I've gotten this idea that I'm using play to achieve a specific goal that I have in mind Right, right, and, and, and. That's really valuable.

Speaker 2: 18:53

I, over the course of my career, have worked with kids of all ages and when I'm working with, like school age or older kids, I use a combination of di play therapy and some non-directives with all the kids. It's kind of like you know when you're treatment planning and you figure out, like you know, what does this individual need. Sometimes it's directive, sometimes non directive, sometimes it's a combination of both Yep and so therapist led or directive play therapy is that kind of like I'm choosing what we're doing. It's going to be play based for a specific reason. Yeah, it makes sense. Yeah, great, great. And under that umbrella of directive, there are a number of other practices. There are specific ways of being directive, so you're ready to go into a different category. So under this umbrella of directive, play therapy, I would love to talk to you about therapy Therapy.

Speaker 1: 20:01

Let's do it. You know therapy. I've heard of therapy, but I'm not sure I could describe it for listeners as well as you.

Speaker 2: 20:08

I love it so much so I've been a registered play therapist for over 20 years and I didn't think that this late in my career I would jump in and learn something totally new. But in the past couple of years I have dove into therapy because I love it so much. So therapy is completely therapist directed Okay, directive kind of play therapy. But guess what? We don't talk about problems, we don't talk about behaviors. We are 100% engaged with play and playful activities for the purpose of facilitating improved relationship between child and caregiver. So instead of saying child, I want you to talk about your dealings with your mom. I say hey, sally, come here and you're going to play this game with your mom. And so they are playing together, communicating positively, enjoying each other's company, and we're feeling their relationship.

Speaker 2: 21:30

Of course, the therapist does do a lot of talking to parent and parents training and guiding, but it's not problem focused, yep, when the child is there, it is relationship focused.

Speaker 1: 21:44

And.

Speaker 2: 21:44

I love it. And knowing how much you care about schools, Beth, I want to just take a little extension of this to tell you that sunshine circles is amazing. Have you heard of sunshine circles? No, Okay tell me.

Speaker 2: 22:00

Yes, sunshine circles is based on therapy, but it's meant to be used in classrooms, okay. So it's about working on relationships between teacher and students and among students in a play based way. So I go in, I'll go into a preschool and I'll give the staff, the teacher and the teacher's assistance, some basic education and training on this way of working and then I lead them in activities that are playful, fun and joyful, and those activities promote getting along, good cooperation, sharing fun experiences. And these sunshine circles and therapy they are all play based, but they're very therapist directed. Whatever happens, the therapist is deciding and leading it. So for today, I'm gonna I'm gonna close that part of the directive play therapy Okay.

Speaker 1: 23:18

So question yeah, yeah. So I've had this question before, actually multiple times before, whether I was doing play based therapy or using play in therapy. Right, I've had parents who were like I'm not bringing him back to you, all you're doing is making paper airplanes with him. I you're not actually addressing the problem because you're not telling him that he needs to go to bed on time. So I trust that you have a beautiful process to educate parents, right? So how do we help educate the parents? Yeah, on this, parents know on some level that it's going to be helpful. You know, because I'll, I'll even have, I've had parents who've challenged me to say Well, of course he's going to behave for you. All you're doing is playing with him.

Speaker 1: 24:12

Yeah, I'm like well, isn't, what we want is for him to behave, and their response is Well, we can't always play all the time.

Speaker 2: 24:20

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 24:21

So how do you talk to those folks who are a little bit skeptical of this healing power of play therapy?

Speaker 2: 24:28

Yeah, that is probably the biggest question that comes up in my classrooms and in my sessions, and it's not just parents that are skeptical when I do school based work, it's administrators and teachers that are skeptical. Oh yeah, looking in the window, they're looking in the window and thinking that child is too happy. They're not hard enough.

Speaker 1: 24:51

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2: 24:52

Yeah. So I totally feel that all the time and I don't know if you're gonna like what I have to tell you. It takes time, it takes a lot of time to earn that credibility. And so what I tell my students is that when I was working in a specific public school district, it took seven years for the administration to believe in the work that I was doing and to trust that I would. What I was doing was effective. Wow, when I first came in, I know it was like look at her, she's too happy, she's too nice, she's too soft.

Speaker 2: 25:30

Because our culture, our culture, says you know, be authoritative, yep, control dominate. And that's not the kind of relationship that play therapists have with kids, regardless of what type of play therapy they're doing. Play therapists are not dominating, authoritative. We are leaders, we are often leaders and we're powerful, but we don't have that focus on control that is very common in our culture. So we have to gain legitimacy and none of us have the privilege of seven years to gain that legitimacy. So we have to quickly gain legitimacy by by, first of all, being really knowledgeable about what we're doing. So we can't just pull out a technique and try this thing and be like you know, I believe it works, so trust me on it. We really need to educate ourselves, not only about the techniques and the practices, but also about the research. A lot of these types of play therapy that I'm talking to you about do have research evidence behind them. We need to read that, be familiar with it, so we can communicate that. So Sunshine Circles has research documenting its effectiveness. Farah Play has research evidence documenting its effectiveness. So when I'm familiar with that, I can communicate and convey that confidently.

Speaker 2: 26:56

Later I'll talk to you about child-centered play therapy. There's a huge body of research saying that child-centered play therapy is effective, so so what's better proof then? It's documented to have been effective, and I also think it's really important for us to not be dismissive of that. We can't just we can't just say oh, you know you don't trust it, but I do, don't worry about it. We need to validate family's concerns and we need to say I know you're desperate for change and I believe that that our work together will result in change. You've tried your way for a really long time and you've told me that it hasn't been successful. Are you willing to trust me and try something new? So we need to, we need to join with whoever it is the parent, the caregiver, the referral source, the authority who's inviting us in to provide these services. We need to join with them in understanding the sense of urgency and then communicate about how and why we know it is going to be effective. And then we need to understand the process so we can help them to learn the process.

Speaker 2: 28:09

And so my graduate students, who are just learning about play therapy I don't expect them to be able to convince parents that play therapy is going to be enough, because they don't. They don't even have the experience of success themselves yet. Yes, so it's tough. I don't think we should just dismiss people's concerns. Yeah, they're desperate, they need change, and so it's. You know, it's like that dance, it's like. It's like trust me, let me earn your trust, let me, you know, share my experience and knowledge. Does that help a?

Speaker 1: 28:44

little bit. Yeah, it does. I mean, I think, addressing the main issue, before we dismiss the parents as being defensive or argumentative, like let's just acknowledge that what they want is for their kid to be better and we just have to communicate to them that that's what we want to.

Speaker 2: 29:03

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 29:04

And our method of doing that that we think is going to be most effective is to do it this way. And you know, I've started kind of telling parents a typical short-term model of mental health therapy is between eight and 12 sessions. You know, if we get to eight and 12 sessions and you're still feeling like you've seen no changes, you felt like we're not making changes, then let's have another conversation. But we didn't get here in two days and I'm probably not going to get here in two weeks, you know right. So I think I don't know how you share that length of time that you often tend to see kids, yeah.

Speaker 2: 29:50

So I have to say, contrary to how many beginning students feel about treatment plans, I love treatment plans. I really do. I think that treatment plans give us an opportunity to have a conversation about realistic expectations. It's so true. And if we can have a conversation about what to expect, then people are going to be less frustrated and annoyed and disappointed when you can't fix things in three sessions. Yeah. So length of treatment really varies.

Speaker 2: 30:25

I will say that there is research suggesting that even 20 sessions of child-centered play therapy can result in improvements in symptoms, which is amazing, right. 20 sessions with anybody having improvement is amazing. That being said, we don't always have the luxury of 20 sessions, no, right. And sometimes we have only 10 sessions. I remember when I was working in private practice, sometimes that was our limitation 10 sessions were approved. Sometimes we're lucky if we get three sessions because of you know lots of different factors.

Speaker 2: 31:03

So I typically suggest, especially to my students who are new at having these conversations, that if we want to make real change, we first are going to start with a really good assessment. That isn't just that first session we meet. We have a lot of information gathering so I can get to a good understanding of what's going on. That could be one session, it could be four sessions. That's when we write our treatment plan and figure out what we're going to do. And if we want to actively work on making change, I really think it's got to happen that we meet once a week for 45 minutes, and I typically write treatment plans for three months. So let's let aim for doing as much as we can once a week 45 minutes, three months if we can, or 10 sessions or so, and then revisit at that time. I am really sensitive to not wanting to keep kids and families in therapy longer than they need to. I agree.

Speaker 2: 32:09

I don't like the idea of kids feeling like there's something wrong with me or we need professional help. So I try to provide treatment as quickly as possible. And you know, it all depends what's the presenting issue, what's the behavioral concern. Some kids, we do 10 sessions and it's goodbye forever. And other kids and families, it's okay, we've done 10 sessions. We need to kind of re-up our treatment plan. What are we working on next? It's a very individualized process for me.

Speaker 1: 32:41

I agree, all the work that I do with kids always includes re-visiting every three months, every four months, whatever it might look like, and then spreading it out as quickly as possible. So we see once a week, and then we may go once a month or twice a month, and then I say, then I become like the dentist, you know, you come a couple of times a year just to make sure you're still doing okay, because things with kids might change, you know. And so I sort of say, hey, come back in six months and if things are fine, you know. Or hey, come back before they start school, because that's a particularly challenging time, right? Okay, anyway, we're off topic. Let's go back to okay, we've done directive play therapy. Let's shift to the other arm. Is that where you were headed next? Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2: 33:33

And just so you know, there are so many other types of directive play therapies those are just kind of like my favorites.

Speaker 2: 33:39

But I would love to start now talking about child directed therapies, which we often refer to as like more child centered or non directive and we call it non directive because I'm not directing it. Okay, so under this umbrella, we believe that the child has the ability to heal themselves and that what we need to provide as the therapist is a relationship with them and a playroom. And when we believe that the child has the ability to heal themselves, then what we do is we get out of the way and so we provide this like safe holding environment where they have access to toys and us and they lead the way. And I have to tell you about this does not naturally fit with my personality. If you had ever told me that I was going to go into sessions and let a child do everything they wanted to do for 45 minutes, I would have said there's no way that's ever going to happen. That doesn't work. That's not for me, that's as it works for me.

Speaker 2: 34:54

Yeah, but the way that I happened upon this is that I had always worked with school age and older kids. Even after becoming a credentialed play therapist, my play therapy was a lot of talk based work, yeah, and then a school district called me up and said we're looking for a play therapist to come into our schools and we need you to work with preschoolers who are in special education and many, if not all, of them have speech delays. And I was like wait a minute, so you want me to work with three year olds that don't speak? Exactly, how can I do talk therapy with them? People Exactly, yeah, exactly. And even my other more my other play based ways of working were not going to work in that way. And so that's when I actually went back to the research. I literally like went to the library and looked up journal articles effective treatment, three year olds, effective psychotherapy, three year olds and I was reminded of child centered play therapy. Wow, so child centered play therapy is documented to be effective with two year olds to 12 year olds. Wow, okay, and I will tell you that these days I wouldn't really expect to use child centered play therapy with like 11, 12 year olds. Yeah, yeah, as we've talked about in other episodes, the culture of childhood has changed. Yep and lay isn't as present in, you know, pre adolescence lives, but, but child centered play therapy for two to 10 year olds, absolutely. And so what we need to have when we do child centered play therapy is a full playroom and and a lot of skills, and I think you said that maybe we would talk about those skills in in part two of this episode.

Speaker 2: 36:51

Yeah, but just to just to share a little bit about what happens in child centered play therapy. The child leads the way, the child knows that they're safe, the child has access to toys and materials and and oh, on the topic of toys and materials, when we're in a child centered relationship, we believe that play is the child's language, so that the toys are actually the child's words. So we do need to have a full variety of toys and materials. That being said, when I was working in schools, I didn't have a playroom in the schools. I sometimes had access to a classroom. Sometimes I saw it's in the hallway, but I had a bag that was my traveling playroom. So we are in relationship with this child and the child leads the way. Literally, the child plays and we use what we call child centered play therapy skills to make meaning and to help the child do this exploration and learning and growing.

Speaker 2: 37:57

And without sharing you know confidential details about specific cases, I just want to tell you that I've worked with three year olds and four year olds and older children that have processed traumas that I couldn't even imagine through the process of play. There was no me asking them questions or saying let's talk about the bad thing that happened. They processed these experiences on their own in this safe environment with me. They healed themselves. When a three year old has trauma, they don't have the ability to talk to you about it. So some of the kids that I've worked with I didn't even know what they had experienced, but I witnessed them healing from it through their play.

Speaker 2: 38:48

It's pretty amazing when you provide the right environment and you can witness the child doing this process. For those who aren't going to well for anyone, whether you can listen to part two or not, I strongly recommend that people who are kind of starting to be more curious about play therapy, I would strongly recommend they start by learning a little bit about child centered play therapy, and you can certainly Google, search and find documents and websites and maybe even videos, maybe when people are ready for continuing ed trainings on the topic. Child centered play therapy is a really fabulous beginning level, like bridge to getting into this world of what is so amazing about play therapy.

Speaker 1: 39:41

So where would a person find high quality training?

Speaker 2: 39:46

Wow, that's great question. I love that. The best place to go, whether you ever decide to join or not. I would strongly recommend that people check out the Association for Play Therapy website. It's actually wwwathenumber4, like a4ptorg, so wwwathenumber4.ptorg, and they have a phenomenal website that has so much information. Again, whether or not anybody decides to join, they can read and learn and, I believe, also access calendars of training.

Speaker 2: 40:27

I'm not 100% sure on that, but if people are interested in learning about trainings near them, they can certainly look to their local chapter. So, for example, I live in New Jersey. New Jersey has an active chapter of the Association for Play Therapy and anything that is advertised on their website is going to be high quality, apt approved. The other really great thing that you can find on that APT website is a directory of play therapists. So let's say, one of your listeners has gotten curious and realized, hey, I'd like to reach out to a play therapist myself. You can actually search. It's called find play therapists directory. You can search by zip code, city, state, and you can find credentialed play therapists near you. So that's another really great resource.

Speaker 1: 41:21

It's incredible, and I know that we are going to wrap up this first part of this episode and that you're coming back to talk in part two about those skills and one of them being child directed play, something that I talk with parents about, and so I'm thrilled to kind of learn more. And you know, the thing that I love and I keep coming back to throughout this whole kind of conversation is how necessary this is. You know, it's like I just wish that every person could kind of know about the power of play, know the healing power of play, and what I love is how you kept saying, like both types of play therapy are good and necessary, that it's not, oh well, this is the only way to do things. We just know that play matters so much. I love that it has come up so frequently, both in the literature and it's becoming more mainstream, that we need our kids to be playing more, and so I'm just so thrilled that we're having this conversation.

Speaker 1: 42:24

I know it's going to be helpful to our graduate students, for anybody who might be interested, and even for parents who are kind of looking for somebody to work with your own child. I think that there are some great folks who do great work with kids. But I think it's also fair to search up a play therapist in your area and seek them out, because what I don't know what it's like in your community, but in my community I know there aren't enough of us who specialize in working with kids. But if I can't fit you on my schedule which I can't, unfortunately, so I can't see you in my schedule, but I know other child focused people. So even if that therapist that you're reaching out to can't fit you on their schedule, ask them who they recommend. I don't know. What is it like in your community? Where are you at with child focused play therapy or even just child focused people?

Speaker 2: 43:25

Yeah, even before the pandemic there was a shortage of people who were able to do good work with kids, but now it's even worse.

Speaker 2: 43:38

I will say that specifically in New Jersey, I've seen over the past 10 years, the number of people actively involved in the play therapy community and becoming credentialed is growing. So we, I think here, are doing a good job of promoting play therapy in our graduate schools and and trying to grow our numbers. There aren't enough, but I completely agree with you, beth, that if somebody calls me up and says you know, can you work with my child, even though I don't have room on my load right now, I'm going to call you back and help you find someone else. So it's good to connect with those networks and for those of your listeners who are interested in working with children in the future, please know that it is definitely an area where there's a lot of need. I think that you will never be without work Never If you go into working with children and you especially if you start building your brand, building this expertise in training and effective work with children. It is a very high demand, marketable skill set that I would strongly recommend they consider.

Speaker 1: 44:53

I couldn't agree more, and even you know, a lot of my graduate students, who maybe didn't say they wanted to specialize in working with kids, are working with kids. You know like they're working with kids, whether they kind of like it or not, especially early on, until you become really established. So okay, colleen, I can't wait for part two. This was already an amazing start and, listener, please come back for part two, because it's it is going to be really helpful, I think, for all of us to just continue to learn from Dr Colleen. So thanks for continuing to come and share and I look forward to part two.

Speaker 2: 45:31

Sounds good, thank you Bye.