Ep84: Nature's Blueprint for Balance and Connection in Therapy with Dr. Kelly Savery

Discover the profound wisdom of trees and their influence on our psychological health as Dr. Kelly Savery, a seasoned counseling psychologist, shares her unique approach to integrating these gentle giants into therapeutic practices. Our exchange sheds light on the stabilizing presence trees offer us and how they act as living metaphors for personal growth and resilience. Together, we uncover the 'taproot' concept for a robust psychological foundation, drawing attention to the nurturing parallels between tending to our basic needs and the way trees absorb sunlight and water to thrive.

Venture with us through a journey of self-care and interconnectedness, where the simple act of grounding in the present moment can be as transformative as the communal behaviors of a forest. Dr. Savery's insights on the social networks of trees open up a profound discussion on human connection and support systems, reminding us of the therapeutic benefits of the great outdoors. We also touch on the importance of embracing our limitations and fostering connections, highlighting the role of nature in enhancing our mental well-being outside the confines of traditional therapy.

Cap off this enlightening conversation with a deep dive into the necessity of patience and balance in our fast-paced world. We reflect on the growth parallels between trees and personal development, stressing the virtues of patience, acknowledging limitations, and fostering connections in a society that often emphasizes individual achievement. Dr. Savery's expertise leaves us contemplating the ways we can embrace the wisdom of the natural world and leverage nature's healing power to foster a sense of belonging and grounding in our lives.

This podcast is meant to be a resource for the general public, as well as fellow therapists/psychologists. It is NOT meant to replace the meaningful work of individual or family therapy. Please seek professional help in your area if you are struggling. #breakthestigma #makewordsmatter #thingsyoulearnintherapy #thingsyoulearnintherapypodcast
 
 Feel free to share your thoughts at www.makewordsmatterforgood.com or email me at Beth@makewordsmatterforgood.com

If you are a therapist or psychologist and want to be a guest on the show, please complete this form to apply: https://forms.gle/ooy8QirpgL2JSLhP6 

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:12

All right, so welcome back to Things you Learn in Therapy. Today, y'all and I am your host, Dr Beth Tramell, and I'm a licensed psychologist and an associate professor of psychology at Indiana University East, and I really love meeting new people and I love sharing mental health thoughts or mental health advice for folks, because I know there's such a need for great resources, and so this podcast and all the episodes here I'm aiming to introduce you to the work of so many great clinicians, and I have another amazing clinician here with me today, Dr Kelly Savry, and she's going to talk with us about just some of the most amazing things. In fact, I have to tell you this has been one of my most I've been the most excited about getting to do this interview because of some personal connections I have that I might share with listeners. One last reminder I just want to remind folks that this episode and all the episodes are not meant to replace therapy.

Speaker 1: 1:22

We all every person that I've had on here we know that you can't get well by just listening to a podcast. It can help in getting well in a lot of other ways on top of the work of individual therapy. So if you're a person who's struggling, please reach out to a therapist, a psychologist, a counselor, somebody in your area. But for now, let's get into this, because I can't wait to talk about trees. Oh my gosh. Okay, Dr Kelly Savry, please introduce yourself to listeners and tell us one fun thing about you.

Speaker 2: 1:58

Oh, hello everybody. I am Dr Kelly Savry. I'm a licensed counseling psychologist. I'm currently based in the UK, in Manchester, but I was originally born and raised in Bermuda, so I'm an island girl for life. Right now I work mainly with people who have survived some form of trauma. So sexual abuse is my specialization and I have a really big interest in kind of using trees and nature as ways of learning and guiding our lives. So I talk a lot in my therapy about how we can learn from trees, how we can become grounded and stabilize and really learn from nature in order to help us feel better about ourselves.

Speaker 1: 2:50

Okay, so you gave us three or four fun facts. Were those included in your introduction, or do you have another fun fact?

Speaker 2: 2:58

Okay, fun fact, fun fact. Okay, this is going to sound weird. No, it's not. I can hear it. Sometimes I talk to my plants. No, fun fact, have a chat with your plant.

Speaker 1: 3:13

I don't know if there's research, but there's people who wholeheartedly believe that if they talk to their plants, they grow more successfully.

Speaker 2: 3:20

I really believe it and I think it's something about kindness, the compassion, the attention, and then the science in terms of the exchange of carbon and oxygen. So it's like a science, but also I think trees and plants and nature is all about relationships and connection, and so I think that connection helps them to feel better and to help them to feel better.

Speaker 1: 3:43

I think I'm going to have to set an alarm on my phone to talk to my plants every day, because maybe that's what's wrong I'm a plant killer. Oh gosh, okay, I'm a plant killer. I don't mean to be, I don't mean to be, but I just I love them and I probably spend more than I should because I should just, yeah, I can't figure out the right ratio of water. I over water or underwater, I don't know. I don't know. Your voice is brilliant and soothing and wonderful. Maybe I'll just I'll pay you to call every so often and just talk to my plants for me.

Speaker 2: 4:17

I talk to them. Maybe it's just that little bit of love, you know, that little bit of extra attention that they're missing. You know you'll notice and you'll look at them. You'll have a chat and you'll be like, oh, you need more sun. And then you naturally move them to a different party of house. You're like, oh, I may have over watered you. You look a little bit too yellow. I can see that I need to change something. So I guess it is about that and attention to care, that it reminds us when we're having the conversation with them as well.

Speaker 1: 4:48

Okay, this is leading us right to where I think we're going today. And so, folks, when I kind of reached out to clinicians, I asked folks kind of what their specialty was and what they wanted to talk about. And, kelly, your response was I want to talk about how trees are connected to humans. And I was immediately struck because I have always just felt connected to trees. I can't ever really explain it to people, and so I'm hoping that you can help me and everybody else understand that connection that we have with nature and with trees.

Speaker 2: 5:26

Yeah, I get that and I would say that I've always been quite similar, you know, growing up surrounded by like greenage, foliage, water, and that it's almost like for me the trees like anchor me. They're like a talking communication, a solidness that's always there, no matter where you are in the world.

Speaker 1: 5:50

I think it's great, and even if you don't necessarily have trees in your backyard, it can still be a grounding piece of nature for you.

Speaker 2: 6:03

Yeah, on image or you know a house plant, you know it could be any sort of connection to nature in that way that feels really important for us as humans. So when you talk with folks kind of practically, about this right.

Speaker 1: 6:16

How does it come up in session when you talk about trees and nature? That's a good question.

Speaker 2: 6:25

Well, you come across like Kelly. What are you talking?

Speaker 1: 6:28

about. You're sure I should see you again.

Speaker 2: 6:33

But I guess now the name of my practice is tackling psychology, so people kind of expect me to I think, or know me enough or learn about me enough before they come to work with me to know that it's an interest of mine, and so the reason I picked tackling psychology is it talks about how, with certain plans, you need to have a taproot in order to survive, so it's a metaphor for strong roots. Strong roots, stability, grounding, which then leads to growth and development, and so I think that's the first way that I would start to talk about this or introduce this to people, thinking about OK, so what? Where are you from? Like, why are your roots? Much inherited, Like who are the people around you? But also how and what do you do to help yourself feel more grounded and stable?

Speaker 1: 7:24

I love that and it sounds like it is equally a passion for you professionally, but also this idea of staying grounded is also a passion for you personally.

Speaker 2: 7:35

Yeah, definitely. I guess it's because, for me, as a therapist, I can't do what I do, I can't live my life as a person without having the stability and grounding, because how can I show up, how can I be present and be in my relationships if I don't have that solidity in myself?

Speaker 1: 7:59

So if I'm a person who's coming in and you know I'm like I don't really understand what it means to be grounded in, you know who I am or who my family is, or maybe I don't even like my family, how can I stay grounded or rooted? How do you help folks when they're kind of in that scenario?

Speaker 2: 8:22

Now, that's a good question, because it's that for me. What came up is thinking that sometimes, when we think about stability and grounding, we get to our head, we get to our mind and our thoughts, whereas when I think about stability and grounding, I start with the body and I think about like the first.

Speaker 2: 8:42

For me, the first step of finding our roots and our stability is to simply put enough feet on the ground. You know and like, even right now, I'm barefoot, I'm sitting and I have two feet on the ground. As I talk and engage with you, you always listen and it's the body, the feeling of the ground beneath my feet that allows me to then feel balanced enough to be able to be in this conversation.

Speaker 1: 9:11

So, yeah, it's really present focus too. I love that you are like yeah, so we're mostly looking for grounding in our thoughts, right, we're like, well, who am I and where am I from and who is my parent and who were they and how does it impact who I am? But really you're saying it is, it's it's sort of more basic than that, almost where it's more tangible, even where it's like literally right here in this moment, I'm grounded in this moment, in this place, in this space.

Speaker 2: 9:42

Yeah, because when we become in alignment in that way, it's like rooted. In that way, when we have our feet on the ground, when we have checked to make sure we eat in today, you know we have our nutrients, we can breathe, we expand our lungs and make sure we're here in solid, we have our water, we're hydrated, we're sleeping, when we have the basics of being able to be able to be present, then we can move to thoughts or traumas, our experiences, our lives. But if we don't have that solid grounding, we're not gonna. While in my experience, we might not have enough of this ability to be able to do the thinking Right, because as soon as we think, we'll get flooded by the thoughts or we'll get around and we'll have feelings or get swept away in it and lose connection with the present.

Speaker 1: 10:39

I think it's brilliant and I want to just reiterate this idea of Especially with folks who have trauma or who've had experiences that they maybe don't want to think about again or they are worried about Whether it's future or past. Right, I think what I find in in my experience it's also people avoid thinking about or re-experiencing any of those negative things because they're worried they're gonna get lost, they're gonna get overwhelmed, and so I think what you're saying is that this grounding, this sort of being rooted, is Our, our safe place back Right. So if we're rooted, if we can stay here and stay present, we can always come back to this if we start thinking about or doing. Is that what you're saying?

Speaker 2: 11:34

Yeah, you got it exactly what I'm saying. But so it's that by being rooted by, by being able to know how to sense, it Doesn't matter if we some get caught up, because we know we can come back to ourselves, we know that we have a solid foundation to return to and that security in ourselves and it is Not dependent on anyone else or anything else. Right, it is us, it's our body, it's our.

Speaker 1: 12:04

Our way of being so good. Okay, so, as we were chatting a little bit before, you Also sort of mentioned mentioned trees as sort of social beings and how we relate to other people. That that also sort of mimics Trees. Can you talk more about that?

Speaker 2: 12:22

Yeah, I mean, did you know that trees love and no, that trees. I'm sorry, beth is like.

Speaker 1: 12:31

I know how many moments I'm gonna have where my mind is blown today. I just am ready for it.

Speaker 2: 12:35

Trees have emotions, they have fear, they feel love. They grow better, if you think about forest. They grow better in network and communities. They like I'm just thinking of this image, sorry, I realize you can see in my mind but this image of two trees growing together and then being in my like.

Speaker 2: 12:55

You like trees are stronger together because, you know, what we can't see by looking at their branches and their trunk is that underneath the ground, the roots are often in networks and they're connected and they're sharing nutrients and carbon and water and, like older, more mature trees, they actually help younger trees to grow. You know, they share and they they speak and whisper and communicate each other. So a good example of this is like if a tree is on the thread, if, if a bug is coming or something and it's attacking one tree, what the tree will do is it will release a message through its roots to the other trees Network to prepare and get ready, and so they're always working in community. And when I learned about that I was like, wow, you know, they Help each other and that's what I try to Really encourage everyone that I work with today. It's like let's learn about how we can build your network, your connection your your ability to have someone to lean on, because that is one of the most important things for being.

Speaker 1: 14:06

You know, as, as I think about this and I think about how powerful it could be to use in therapy, right, I think, immediately, I come with. You know 10 or 12 different ways that that can relate to who we are as humans, right? The networking, the social, you know connections, the protecting other people, the you know, the need to be in community. I think I'm sure you use that brilliantly and and you know 10 or 12 different ways.

Speaker 1: 14:35

I think the other thing I thought about too is for those of us who you know maybe are more connected to trees, or those of us who aren't trees, nature it's not that hard to find, and if you live in the city, you know most folks who live in the city may have a houseplant, or you know even a fake tree, for that matter. For me it's the visual cue. So I think the power of therapy is not necessarily only in the one hour session that you have a week, but it's in all the work that you do in between sessions. And so for me, I wonder if using an analogy like the trees is so great, because every time I look at a tree after Dr Savry has told me about this connection, it almost triggers this healing moment in me over and over, if I pay attention to the trees and can like kind of include that moment in between sessions.

Speaker 2: 15:32

I'm not in my head like, yeah, like, for me it's an anchor, you know, in my life it's my anchor, it's my visual anchor of positivity, in a way that I resource myself and a way that I constantly. I might be overwhelmed, I might be stressed, I might be in a place I've never been before and my eyes might meet a picture of a tree because they tend to be around or see a plant or an image or an actual tree, and I remind myself we like a tree. You know, get my roots, put my feet on the ground, take my breath, open my branches and extend, like so many ways of being connected as a human, and that connection to nature that allows us to sometimes get there.

Speaker 1: 16:16

So you just said, like trees are my anchor right. And then, as you were walking through, I was picturing almost this ritual that you just kind of described, where I don't know how often you do this but maybe you can share that. But you kind of said I kind of sit down, I put my feet on the ground, I take my deep breath, I extend my branches. So I'm like picturing you, you know, in your living room or in your office, and you sit and you put your feet down and you bring your arms out. Like is that a ritual that you do and that you recommend with folks?

Speaker 2: 16:47

Yeah, you know it's a stretching, isn't it? It is a sorry I've been straight to the trees and the expanding, but it's definitely prepared for myself, for my day, for my life, for any big events or even when I just need a quiet moment. Right, Because sometimes it's not gonna be expanding, it's gonna be time for rest, and you know, trees also teaches that, because in the winter they go dormant and they lose their leaves and they take some time to restore. And so it's that like, sometimes it's gonna be about expanding and growing and being in community, and sometimes it's gonna be about restoring myself, like giving myself what I need and resting.

Speaker 1: 17:33

So I mean, I love this and I think the idea of kind of grounding yourself, having an anchor, really being intentional in all kinds of moments throughout your day or whenever you kind of need it. For me it's also kind of akin to that like power pose. You know, like some people have a power pose, yeah, some people have sort of a tree anchoring metaphor, that when we look at trees and we're mindful of that, so it seems like it's almost like okay, we have this expanding and growing portion of trees and anchoring, and then we have this dormant and restful, and so do you encourage folks to take almost a different posture in that? Or how do you talk about this dormant, restful phase with folks?

Speaker 2: 18:18

Well, I think that's a great idea and I might start to do what you just said in terms of taking the pose, because when I was there I was like, oh, that's, that is fascinating. And you know I do use a lot of body movement but I haven't connected it with the tree yet, but I could see how he would. The way that I tend to use it now is through the reminder of rest and the importance of self-care. So I feel like sometimes we almost need permission to take a break. It's like I don't know why, but we need permissions to allow ourselves to rest. And what bigger permission giver is that of nature, like in every part of civilization, of community, of the world needs rest, even your tree outdoors, why can't you? And that's how I would think about it. So it's reminding people of the bigger connection and relationship between themselves and the world around them.

Speaker 1: 19:22

I read a book, oh, and now I can't remember what it's called, but essentially it was talking about kind of the rhythms of the seasons that you know, in certain parts of the world we get different seasons, sometimes the word we don't necessarily get those seasons as distinctly, but that those seasons should match kind of the rhythms of our lives and our bodies and how we expend and we save energy and we expend and we kind of save moments for rest. And so do you kind of also incorporate that sort of like rhythm-based philosophy?

Speaker 2: 20:05

I don't know if that's the right way to say it, but yeah, no, I think that what you just said about the energy, like giving an expenditure, is a really helpful exercise to do with people or to do with yourself.

Speaker 2: 20:18

So thinking about what are you putting in your body, what are you giving out and what is left over and what are you sharing, and that a really intentional awareness of how we balance our lives. And so I can tell you a story. So, as an Eileen girl in Bermuda, we don't really have a seasons, so we don't have the Okay, no, let me amend that we do, but we don't have the leaves changing color and like, so we don't have a constant reminder, whereas my life in the UK is so different where I'm like, oh my goodness, but the season has changed each time, from I put on my winter jacket and again it's that physical reminder to actively think about my rhythm, the lack of light I'm currently consuming and how I can then adapt and account for and create what I need. So it is about the seasons. It is about knowing that as a human, we're gonna need different things at different times and allowing the adaptability of that in our lives, the flexibility.

Speaker 1: 21:29

So, as we kind of talk about it, it seems kind of uncomplicated to just kind of continue to come back to the moment, stay grounded, continue to, you know, figure out what is keeping you from being anchored in kind of these moments and then this idea of this rhythm and how we are always kind of bending and swaying, to even kind of use the metaphor of the trees here. But when I think about what keeps us from doing that well, I can think of a lot of things that keep us from doing that well, and I know your expertise is working with folks with trauma, and so what are some of the things that you see that kind of keep people from being able to do this well?

Speaker 2: 22:14

Yeah, and I'm just thinking for a moment, just buzzing, and I think this is tricky, right, because we live in context. Yep, we live in context, and so sometimes we have a lack of choice. So I think that when I say a lack of choice, I mean I don't want to underestimate our surroundings, our viability, like where we are at, like, unfortunately, in our culture. We have to work, we have to be able to survive, and so for me, that is a barrier, to be honest, because we're always making choices or negotiating our needs, which might be different from a different sort of need of being able to live. So it's still a need, it's just what is most important for us in that moment, and so it means that sometimes we make sacrifices and sometimes we can process our trauma. Sometimes it's too difficult because we don't have the resources around us to let us and to allow us to do that. So for me, that is a massive barrier, and I don't ever want to minimize or not acknowledge that with people.

Speaker 1: 23:34

I think it's so good and such a good reminder for folks who may be listening, that, while we know some of these strategies may seem uncomplicated, we are not suggesting that they're easy in any way.

Speaker 1: 23:52

Right, and I think about my own life. Perhaps you think about your own life where it's like I know what I probably need to do is find space for rest, but I have 20 things on my to-do list, my kids are coming home at three o'clock and I only have four hours to do X, y and Z, and then the chaos of having my four kids at home ensues. And so I guess the reminder here is to have some compassion for ourselves, knowing that, even if we know the right thing to do to keep us anchored, sometimes, like you're saying, kind of context and situations of surviving and just getting through the day may keep us from doing that, and that's okay. Just today is about getting through today and as many moments as you can gather, stay grounded and anchored in when you have to get out and do all the things you gotta do, just know you can come back.

Speaker 2: 24:51

That's what it is.

Speaker 1: 24:52

And.

Speaker 2: 24:52

I guess the other thing that trees teachers is like patience and time. The oldest trees like over millions of years old, like it's not like they wake up with this inherent wisdom Well, some of them do, but at the same time it's about patience to learn and grow and so, even though sometimes it's hard, we can learn to adapt and be flexible and compassionate on that journey as well.

Speaker 1: 25:23

Whew, okay, you just said that patience word and that's probably like one of my. I just really don't do that well. Don't do that well, okay, don't. I mean? I just I. If I have something in my head or if I have something that I wanna do, it's like it needs to happen, like right now. It's hard for me to even settle into patience and I think what I've learned over the years about myself is that I get stuck in my head with that. If I know it's something I have to do or it's something I wanna do, it's like I can't get it out of my mind, even if I write it on any one of the hundred no cards that are on my desk with all of my to-do lists for forever.

Speaker 1: 26:11

So this patience thing really is a challenge for me personally, but I think for other people too. So when we live in a world that is go, go, go, we value people who produce a lot of things, who do a lot of things, who don't rest well. I mean we sort of praise those folks.

Speaker 2: 26:34

We definitely do?

Speaker 1: 26:35

What do we tell people? And maybe, just hey, put myself on the clock here. What do you tell me, dr Savory?

Speaker 2: 26:43

I tell you well, what's more important in your life. I ask you to really deep dive and ask yourself what do you really value? And is it about tick box and is it about getting it done, or is it about getting it done in a way that is helpful, beneficial and in a way that you need? And so, yes, the patience is really, really hard, and I'm kind of like I have moments in my seasons where I go faster and then I might rest, and so it goes by your clock as well. But in general, the patience is about like taking that breath again, putting your feet on the ground and just asking yourself in your mind is going?

Speaker 2: 27:30

Why is it going there? Is there something else more important that I need to be thinking about, or is there something I actually need to do? Because that's the other thing. Sometimes it's just a reminder of the importance of the thing that keeps coming up, and maybe, instead of putting it on the cards, we actually need to say okay, my patience, this moment, is telling me actually I need to prioritize this, Actually I need to get it done, and that's okay as well.

Speaker 1: 27:59

It's so good. What is important to me right now, and do I need to prioritize this now or can I prioritize it later?

Speaker 2: 28:08

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 28:09

Yeah, and just want to put it into the other mental checklist somewhere else and just put it on a shelf for a minute.

Speaker 2: 28:17

Put it on a shelf, it will be there. Where are we planting our seeds? So like, what in this moment, needs to be watered, what needs to be grown? What do we need in terms of nourishment and fulfillment?

Speaker 1: 28:35

Okay, tell me more about that. I love, okay, so I love. I use the planting seeds analogy a lot, mostly with parents when we're having conversations with our kids or our teenagers, Because what I find is that folks want to plant the seed and they want to water it, and then they want to immediately harvest right, so they want to have this conversation, they want their teenager to take it all in, figure out their personal plan for changes and then immediately implement their new personal plan, like all in a span of eight minutes.

Speaker 1: 29:09

So talk to me about this idea of levels of energy and ways that we kind of tangibly use that metaphor. Well, I love that, for me.

Speaker 2: 29:21

I think what you just said was key, because it is it's like people expected to come up at eight minutes and you think, and here's- my I can't it come on, I can't it, but the point of this is a reminder. How long does it take a tree to grow? And I think that answers your question how long does it take to actually learn something new?

Speaker 1: 29:43

I'm sorry, I'm laughing because your question is so like I can just imagine just being like well, what do you expect? How long do you think it takes?

Speaker 2: 29:51

to grow a tree. Yeah, that would be my answer and that's exactly how I would say it, and that's exactly how I would encourage people to remind themselves about their plans, their intentions. Like, for example, if I'm planning something for me, I want it done immediately. But I also know part of my process is I think about it, it's in the back of my mind and it's growing without me paying attention to it, and so I'm like, oh my goodness, it's ready. It's ready. I'm gonna reply to it in a bigger pause, I'm gonna get more resources for it, I'm gonna figure out how to make it the best version of whatever it is, you know, but it always takes time, no matter what it is. I haven't had any experience where it just happens, and if it is, it's kind of out of luck versus like some people are just lucky.

Speaker 1: 30:48

Some people are just lucky. I love that actually. It's like, yeah, sometimes it just works out, but it's not actually because it has been kind of growing and being nurtured and kind of pulling all of the pieces together in a way that produced this kind of fruitful product.

Speaker 2: 31:07

Yeah, and I guess with that it makes me think about some of my thoughts around power and privilege and oppression and kind of really again, all of this is in context right, like because some people are, they're just really privileged and you know, I can show them respect and I can acknowledge that that is where they're at and they can acknowledge their inherent privilege. And I can also acknowledge that it might take me more time and that's okay, it's not fair, but I can accept it.

Speaker 1: 31:40

This is so important for people to realize and I think it can make folks really uncomfortable to pause to think about. And I know in my own life, in my own journey of realizing privilege in my own life, I was raised in a family that really valued hard, work right, and so the message was always work hard, work hard, work hard. And now that I am, you know, 41 years old, I'm realizing so much about most of the world is not work hard and you can do anything. Yeah, I mean, that's like not, that's not a truth.

Speaker 2: 32:23

No, it's not. It's like I'm gonna pick on you Mary-Kids out there, like that American dream. Yeah, come on that American dream, you can be anything you wanna be. And that is the biggest lie and the biggest unhelpful statement that was ever publicized, I think, anyway. And I remember the first time I started to think this day, it was my math teacher actually, and he came into our math class and he was like I'm sorry, you're just never going to be a mathematician.

Speaker 2: 32:55

I was like what I was like Cross my dreams. I was Not that I wanted to, but I was a bit like taking that and I remember doing home and my dad like being livid, and I'm like why would they crush you? Like that. And then the back of my head being like, actually, I'm never going to be a mathematician, like he's right. And over the years, really coming into a different relationship with that saying and really questioning the reality of it. And as much as I would love that we would all be good at everything, we also have to accept our limitations. We're going to be better at some things and not at others.

Speaker 1: 33:35

And privilege plays a big part in how working hard is not the only thing that leads to opportunities. Yeah, it does. You know, I share with parents. Don't tell kids that if they just work hard they can be anything they want to be, because it puts this unrealistic expectation on our kids to say, hey, yeah, I worked hard on this math assignment and I got a D. I don't know, I worked hard to be in the first chair with a violin and they picked somebody else. What do you mean if I just work hard? And really it's so much more than that. It's about who you know, what you look like, who your family is, who your parents are. That opens doors and some folks may not necessarily want to hear that, but that really is kind of the truth.

Speaker 2: 34:34

Yeah, it is, and some people might try to underestimate or minimize how big of a truth that actually is, but it is.

Speaker 1: 34:45

Yeah, and I think you also brought up something that I see a lot is kind of being afraid to tell kids some truths because we don't want to crush their dreams or we don't want to make them feel bad about themselves. But the truth is, all of us have inherent strengths and skills and sometimes they could use a little direction and even some admission of or allowance of failure. Instead of saving our kids from making mistakes all the time, sometimes we got to let them fail so they can realize oh, maybe this isn't what I should be doing.

Speaker 2: 35:33

And sometimes we need them to fail so that they can know what it means to not be good at everything. Oh, a good loser Like yo, there is so much place in losing and still respecting the winner, and it feels like society now makes it such a bad thing to not be first when second can be just as great, and the truth is you're not going to be first your whole life.

Speaker 2: 35:58

No, no, there's been many times where I have never been first and if it's a running race I would definitely have been last. It's just the way it was and the amount of learning and dignity and pride in myself I have of that is good.

Speaker 1: 36:17

You know, it is so true, though, where we are so trained to think I am a better human when I land in first and whatever thing I'm doing.

Speaker 2: 36:31

Yeah, we are. I guess for me it makes the sometimes the individualized part of the emphasis. There's such an emphasis in the world about being this independent, strong. There's like I don't need anyone person and actually it's just not true, because we're born social people who need connection, who need love, who are humans, right, and it feels like sometimes that is just so underestimated.

Speaker 1: 37:05

I think you're so on track. And if I come back to this analogy of the trees that we've been talking about, in a world of social media and likes, and we're all aiming to be the best, most popular individualized tree, we want to be the tree in the forest that everyone knows is the best tree. Yeah, that's not really a good thing, right? No, is it?

Speaker 2: 37:32

true Because, if we think about forest right, there is no the best tree. They're always working together. We just don't get to see it because it's underground. It's at the roots, so there's always a connection or community, there's always people helping, there's always something propping them up. So we cherish the unique, this, and we value the diversity. We need diverse people, diverse trees in order to have this society that works. And yet the emphasis on being alone, being the strong one, being the person who always wins sorry just makes us lose focus or makes us again lose the very thing that we need to be happy, which is love and connection and support.

Speaker 1: 38:29

I just love the image of these trees and the forest. I mean, I can think over and over how often I could use this in my everyday life. When I'm feeling isolated, I can sort of picture myself as that lonely tree and the lack of protection, the lack of nutrients, the lack of connection to my community, when I'm feeling like I'm kind of on the outside of the forest for whatever reason, I feel like I'm an outsider for whatever reason. I could just come back to this moment thinking how can I get better connected and better grounded?

Speaker 2: 39:06

back to the forest, yeah, or you can go take a walk with the trees, because it reminds me of this quote. I don't know where I got it from, but it's like you're never lonely when you're surrounded by trees and nature because they're part of you.

Speaker 2: 39:22

And so go to the tree, and so you're giving yourself the energy, the nutrients, the support that you need with another living creature it may not be a human, but it's a way of I don't know placing your hand on the trunk, feeling their life for us and regenerating yourself at the same time.

Speaker 1: 39:43

It's why we often tell folks get outside, take a walk. Doesn't have to be a strenuous walk. But it's really kind of that. Even if people aren't realizing it Right, it's sort of happening, maybe even subconsciously, without you even knowing the moment.

Speaker 2: 40:01

you're going out, taking out, walking, you're taking in oxygen, the things that the tree provides you. You are coming back to yourself and the more that we encourage people and I encourage you listeners to become intentional and put an active awareness on this process, the more you'll potentially feel that nurturing and that changing yourself so good.

Speaker 1: 40:30

And I think for me, and what I hope listeners also experience, is this increased awareness. So if you're a person who maybe didn't realize it, but you feel more connected to nature when you get outside, I think what we're saying is bring it to a conscious awareness Instead of subconsciously bring it to the awareness and spend time being intentional about receiving the energy from nature, receiving the energy from the trees.

Speaker 2: 40:58

And that conscious awareness, that moment of coming back to yourself then allows you to then take it forward with you. That's so good, that's so good.

Speaker 1: 41:10

OK. So I know that you have something interesting to say, because I can see it on your face, so tell me the point that you I can just tell yeah, I was trying to squeeze it in and I was like I don't know.

Speaker 2: 41:24

I just wanted people to know did you know that trees are adapting and self-generating, so they self-heal, and so I just wanted to say it feels really important I was thinking about coming to therapy, not being in therapy potentially on this healing journey, like trees, when they get wounded, when they get cut, what they do is they actually self-heal themselves?

Speaker 1: 41:51

How cool is that? It's so amazing, and I think about trees, that maybe some of us have scene that have like carvings in them or like you know. I don't know what other injuries do trees have except like Manmade injuries bugs, I guess.

Speaker 2: 42:08

Bugs and stuff. But what happens is that they get. If they get cut, what they do is they create a knot. So you know the knots in the trees, uh-huh. What they do is they direct the nutrients around it and they keep the knot and they adapt. So it's like they they self-generated. They self-generate by Keeping sometimes the moon, keeping the heart, but growing around it, and I just think that that is kind of really moving and really Something to to learn from that. We can have these things, we can create another way, we can develop from it and yet still be okay.

Speaker 1: 42:46

Okay, so I think about this within the context of trauma, right, so you know a person who may be listening who's experienced trauma, and they're they. They sometimes have the internal message or someone has told them that they're broken or they're damaged. I can see how you might use this, but, you know, do you reshift that narrative by using kind of this, this metaphor?

Speaker 2: 43:10

You have to help people understand how you can still grow and be okay. You know, sometimes I might invite people to go on a walk and look for the knots and trees and to notice the bees that nature has learned to adapt despite you know the storms, despite Humanity, you know you just have to go to a park and see how Adaptive nature can be. And so it's the, the reminder that it's possible that sometimes people forget. So it's a physical reminder of how, no matter what happens, we can learn to continue and grow.

Speaker 1: 43:48

We can adapt and continue to grow. Yeah, we don't have to stay stuck there. We don't have to stay scarred there. We can grow and and kind of mold around this thing. That has happened. Yeah, it's so good. I'm so glad you shared that. It was so good to share. Okay, dr Kelly Savory, you just launched a website. You have Instagram. Tell people how they can find you on Instagram and through my website.

Speaker 2: 44:14

You can get me at Tapford psychology, where I'll be sharing more of this information, more of my ideas, and Specifically on the Instagram. My focus is on helping people get grounded, so learning tools to help you come back to yourself.

Speaker 1: 44:30

It's so good. I checked out your Instagram earlier this week and was was loving all of the all of the images, so I encourage folks to to follow and, yeah, check out your website, because I knew you're gonna have Some really great stuff there for anybody who's interested. My work is makewordsmatterforgoodcom and Most of what I do is on Facebook, but some Instagram and I've started doing ticktocks which totally terrify me. Maybe I should do more of them outside, maybe just that would be. I just yeah anyway. So my focus is on, yeah, those communication strategies to connect with folks. So Thank you for being here, kelly. It has been so fascinating, so fun, so empowering, really To hear your thoughts on how nature can help us.

Speaker 2: 45:18

Cool Thank you so much for happening it's great.

Speaker 1: 45:22

All right listeners until our next episode. Thanks for listening to things you learn therapy.