Things You Learn in Therapy
Things You Learn in Therapy
Ep56: Finding Wellness in the Face of Burnout
What if there was a way to identify signs of burnout before it takes a toll on your health and wellbeing? And what if you could arm yourself with strategies to tackle it head-on? That's exactly what we're exploring in our Season 2 replay of this heartfelt conversation with Desiree Argentina, a licensed clinical social worker and an expert on burnout.
Desiree helps us dissect the anatomy of burnout, taking us on a journey through its various manifestations and symptoms. She brings a unique perspective to understanding this complex issue, especially considering the strain of contemporary life and the judgement individuals often face. In our chat, we navigate the tough terrains of relationships and jobs that may be causing burnout, and the difficulty in walking away from them. With her advice, we discuss the importance of external support and adjusting expectations to breathe more life into your days.
In the final stretch of our conversation, Desiree presents actionable strategies to combat burnout. By setting boundaries, curtailing social media use, and maintaining a healthy sleep routine, she believes we can turn the tide on burnout. We also touch upon the importance of regular breaks, self-care, and the courage to walk away from detrimental relationships or jobs. This episode is not just about diagnosing burnout, but arming you with the tools to regain control of your mental health and overall wellness. Come join us in this enlightening conversation, and let’s tackle burnout together!
I'm sharing this Season 2 replay because it was one of the episodes that drastically changed my everyday perspectives. I hope it will change yours for the better, too. :)
This podcast is meant to be a resource for the general public, as well as fellow therapists/psychologists. It is NOT meant to replace the meaningful work of individual or family therapy. Please seek professional help in your area if you are struggling. #breakthestigma #makewordsmatter #thingsyoulearnintherapy #thingsyoulearnintherapypodcast
Feel free to share your thoughts at www.makewordsmatterforgood.com or email me at Beth@makewordsmatterforgood.com
If you are a therapist or psychologist and want to be a guest on the show, please complete this form to apply: https://forms.gle/ooy8QirpgL2JSLhP6
www.bethtrammell.com
Welcome back. I'm your host, dr Beth Tramell, and I am an associate professor of psychology at Indiana University East, where I'm also the director of the master's in mental health counseling program. I specialize in working with kids and families. I also do a lot of training and consultation with teachers on how to make words matter for good, and today we're going to talk about burnout, and it may not necessarily be the most exciting topic, but I really think it's one of the most important, and I think a lot of folks, especially over the last couple of years, can really relate to this idea of burnout. And I am really excited to meet one of my newest friends now from Denver, colorado, joining us on the podcast, desiree Argentina. She's a licensed clinical social worker and you spend a lot of time in the school as you work with a lot of teens and families, but I'm sure you just see burnout everywhere you go, and so I'm just really excited you are here. So can you go ahead and introduce yourself and tell us one fun thing about you?
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely. Thank you so much for having me today. So, yes, my name is Desiree Argentina, I'm from Brooklyn, New York, and I now live in Denver. I worked for many years at an outpatient mental health clinic on the children's unit, So I worked with kids between five and 19 years old, as well as their families, their siblings. We would do sibling sessions, family sessions, things like that. I now provide the mental health services in a middle school and high school.
Speaker 2:And one fun thing about myself I would say that I am a crazy cat lady and my boyfriend and I actually run a cat rescue on the side. We've been doing that since 2014. We foster we used to do it a lot more when we had more space in upstate New York, but we do TNR, So we go. I'm actually going this weekend to trap some stray kitties and the feral ones. We get them spayed and neutered and released back outside, And the ones that are not feral or kittens, we socialize and bring to shelters to find homes. So that's kind of what we do on the side as well.
Speaker 1:I have never met someone who does this on the side. This is fascinating. Okay, you just said three letters, tnr. What does that mean?
Speaker 2:Yes. So it depends on where you are, but it could be trap, neuter release or some say SNR, spay neuter release, trap neuter return. So basically it means you trap a stray cat, a feral cat. So feral means a lot of people don't know what feral cat means. It means wild. It's a wild animal. You can't really socialize it. I equate them to raccoons, you know. So if they're young enough you could socialize them. But if a cat is just born out in the wild, it becomes a wild animal. It has no, you know, socialization skills with humans. So you basically take that feral cat, you trap it in a humane trap, you bring it to get fixed and then put it back outside because they want to live outside. And a lot of the feral cats, if somebody's feeding them, they become attached to that person And sometimes only that person can pet them or they just rub on them. The person can't touch them at all, but they have a sort of like little relationship going.
Speaker 2:I have a cat, a feral cat, in my backyard. He comes every single night. He's there like clockwork nine o'clock. I feed him. I've never touched this cat So, but he knows that I feed him. So he comes every day. So it just depends on the cat. It's pretty, it's pretty unique, it's pretty interesting. So I have a cat whole like little cat community.
Speaker 1:This is so fascinating. I love that I get to meet so many people that do so many cool things. That's incredible. Okay, so I really could spend a whole lot of time talking to you about this whole thing.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, i can talk about cats forever, so I won't get on that ball.
Speaker 1:Oh my gosh. So I mean, you know, like you're in a relationship with somebody who does this with you. I mean that part is like just so okay, the therapist in me just wants to like keep digging and get so curious about it. But today we're actually going to talk about, well, i don't know, maybe cats can come into this somehow, but we could probably work them in somehow. We could work in cats somehow, i'm sure. So when I kind of reached out to you to say, hey, you want to be on the podcast, what do you want to chat about? You know, you said I really want to talk about burnout. So before we define what burnout kind of means, talk to us about why burnout. You know, why do you want to share about this and why do you think it's important?
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, i think it's really important right now because I think that we are all really burned out. So I think we're, i think a lot of people are struggling right now. A lot of people are struggling with burnout right now, whether it's with work or at home. I mean everybody's working so hard, everybody's really struggling. I mean there's a lot going on in our world right now. Anxiety is up, depressive symptoms up are up, suicide rates are up And I think we're in a sort of cultural burnout right now. If you talk to anybody, they usually you say How are you doing? They'll say I'm all right, feel a little burned out. You know, and I think a lot of people are struggling with this, and an article came out I can't remember if it was NPR or not, but they coined it. You know we have the great resignation. They coined a great checking out.
Speaker 2:So, people are at work but not really present And I really, you know, related to that as well I felt really burned out And I think that it's something that we need to talk about, because I think it's something we're all struggling with And we're all just trying to power through our days and go to work and take care of the kids and do the commute, and I think everybody's having a really hard time and struggling with that and struggling to be present, and I'm seeing a lot of people just not being present and just scrolling endlessly on social media and just, you know, having trouble, a lot of trouble sleeping, not getting good sleeps, waking up in the morning, still feeling really exhausted. People just are exhausted constantly. And then I know we've all been seeing those videos going viral of these people throwing tantrums in stores, screaming, and just everybody just really feels like they're on edge. And I feel that when I'm out and just everybody seems to be at their breaking point and everybody's walking around really irritated and on their last straw.
Speaker 1:Yeah, So you just listed a whole bunch of symptoms that I mean, that was going to be my very next question, right? Like how do we know what might we see in people And you know? so you, one of the first thing you said is you know, we feel like we're working really hard And we're still struggling. I think for me, when I think about burnout and when I hear people talk about like I'm just so tired, feel like I'm working really hard and I'm not getting anywhere or I'm not making progress or nothing's changing or something like that, for me that is one of the kind of red flags of burnout for me. You talked about, you know, trouble with sleeping, checking out, struggling to be present, feeling on edge, feeling really irritated. I think all of those are great kind of real life symptoms of people who may be experiencing burnout. Are there other things that you often see from people who may not recognize? oh, this is burnout. But you, as the therapist, are like well, actually the thing we call that is burnout.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there's, there's a lot of symptoms actually. So, again, this could apply to Your job or at home, because I think a lot of times when we say burnout, it's mostly associated with our jobs, with our occupation, but it can also apply to your personal life, the relationships in your life. We can get burned out from our relationships, right? So you know, and there's a lot of different symptoms. So Something that I see a lot in the schools as well, not only with the staff But also with the students, is just having trouble getting started and in work as well, having trouble Getting started on a task. Lacking energy that's a huge one. Lacking energy and, again, being irritable, being impatient with your family members, with your friends, with co-workers, with strangers on the street, finding it really difficult to concentrate and and Lacking satisfaction That's a big one. If we're constantly burned out, we're not really feeling satisfied with ourselves or our lives or our relationships.
Speaker 2:Exhaustion we talked about a lot of people that are interested in kind of the arts and these creative outlets are lacking creativity. Changing in sleep habits, sleeping too much or too little, but feeling really exhausted No matter the amount of time you're sleeping. Negative self-talk, having a negative outlook and Like physical ailments too. A lot of burnout comes out as physical ailments headaches, stomach aches, you know issues go into the bathroom, bowel issues. So it could look like a lot of different things and if you're feeling on edge, some people will cry frequently or tear up frequently, just feel at their wits and feel very overwhelmed.
Speaker 2:And also physical symptoms could come out as Shortness of breath if you really struggle with that anxiety heightened anxiety. So there's a lot of different symptoms. So because there's so many different symptoms, it can be really difficult to kind of Narrow that down and kind of pinpoint that it is burnout. So really take a look at those symptoms and what's going on it could be. It could be difficult to have all these symptoms and Kind of nail down the cause. But I think a lot of people are struggling with burnout and those are just a lot of the different symptoms that people may experience.
Speaker 1:I think that's great And I think you're describing all of the ways that people may experience this. It doesn't mean that you have to have all of them to right to say, hey, i think this might be burnout. You know, a lot of the symptoms you described are also symptoms of depression. Yes, so can you talk through? you know how do you help people see the difference between burnout and depression and Kind of person have both that's what's really difficult is sometimes symptoms overlap and it can be really hard to tell what Exactly it is, and you know what it.
Speaker 2:It might be both right.
Speaker 2:And maybe burnout could even just be a symptom of depression. So I would say, if you're somebody that's struggling with any of these symptoms, definitely talk to somebody. If you're not seeing a therapist or a doctor already, maybe go to your primary care doctor and describe your symptoms, let them know something's going on, see a therapist and they'll help you kind of differentiate and kind of go through your symptoms and figure out what it could be, because I think you know, obviously burnout or Depression. Rather, you get a diagnosis if you have these symptoms over a longer period of time. But sometimes we have burnout for a long period of time. So it can be really difficult. So you determine which one it is and you know what. Maybe it might be both. So if talking through it or learning the different coping skills or Getting on medication, maybe it will help clear up some of these symptoms. So, yeah, that's gonna be something you're definitely gonna want to talk to your doctor or therapist about, for sure.
Speaker 1:It's great, yeah, and you know, i think it's also. You know, some people are really nervous about the word depression. There is a little bit of a stigma around depression and so I bring that up so people realize You know, sometimes they do go hand in hand. You know, sometimes the burnout can lead to increased symptoms of depression and The other way may be true. Sometimes you have some low levels of depression and that leads to other symptoms of burnout.
Speaker 1:So what I love about what you said earlier is that we can be Burned out at our job, and I think that happens a lot. It has happened a lot in the last couple of years. But we also can be burned out about other parts of our lives. You know our relationships, maybe our home life, how things are going, what we thought our life was gonna be, that sort of thing. I really appreciate helping listeners kind of realize that you know burnout may be in just specific areas of your life and If you can start to think about When each of these symptoms, or any of these symptoms start to come up, it may help in both the prevention and treatment of Burnout. Would you say that that's kind of? the first step is to kind of figure out where you're feeling You know the most burnout before we start thinking about how can I prevent this from happening, or how do I treat it, or Or maybe what's the first step for you if that's not it.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, definitely. So I would say, well, first let me define burnout for excellent and then we can talk about that, because burnout is a state of emotional, physical and mental exhaustion Caused by excessive and prolonged stress. So it occurs when you're feeling overwhelmed, emotionally drained and Unable to meet constant demands and write. That definition could apply to our relationships, our home life, our family life or our jobs. So I would say, before you get to the prevention or the Addressing your current burnout, you need to kind of take an inventory of your life And, like you said, where are you feeling that burnout the most? there may be a certain relationship in your life. Maybe a friend really burns you out, just having that relationship with them or talking with them or speaking, you know, with your parent. Maybe that relationship burns you out and for a lot of parents They don't want to admit it and, like you said, you know talking about depression is a stigma.
Speaker 2:I think there's also a stigma with burnout. A lot of parents feel burned out and I think they don't want to admit that because of the shame And the judgments from others. They don't want to be called a bad parent. A lot of teachers are feeling burned down And we're seeing that across the nation We have the highest amount of teachers leaving the profession than ever. Teachers are burned out, students are burned out. I mean, i work in a middle school and high school And it's so much effort just to get a student to write their name on a piece of paper. There's no. You know that. There's so much struggle, there's so much, you know, lack of just concentration, lack of energy. So I think a lot of people are burned out but They don't want to get that shame. And you know, especially for parents who are already so judged All the time, and for a parent to say you know, i'm really, a lot of parents are working, we're full-time, and then they come home to a full-time job and for a parent to say I'm feeling really burned out, that could get a lot of backlash or you fear that backlash, that you're not good enough.
Speaker 2:You could put those judgments on yourself. I'm not a good parent, i'm not good enough, i can't keep up, i can't meet all these demands of me. That means I'm a failure. But it just the reality is. It just is a lot for parents And it's. I don't think that the way our society is set up as it is right now is really functional for parents, and I think it's easy to get burned down And I think we need to talk about it more because parents are afraid to say, hey, i need some help, i'm struggling, we're, and with anybody, even if you don't have kids, you know the working full time, the commute, the coming home to chores. If you have pets, walking the dog, you know just all of these things. It just feels like we can't handle it And we don't want to admit that we can't handle it, because what does that say about us?
Speaker 1:It's so good. And I come back to something you said earlier about you know some of the symptoms being trouble getting started, lacking energy, not really having interest in things that used to, you know, interest me. And I think about moments where I have felt burned out, where I'm like I don't feel like doing anything. I don't want to start anything, i just want to turn on Netflix, you know, or whatever show, right, and I really don't watch that much TV, but but I can. I can get locked in to, you know, a good season of some sort of show, right. And then you know, what we know about our brains is that our brains become really locked in to those shows.
Speaker 1:For me, it feels like almost this downward spiral, right where I feel like I can't get started. I don't feel like getting started, i tell myself that I'm tired, i tell myself that I don't feel like doing anything. I sit down, i turn on a show and then two hours later the guilt and the shame comes in. I've just wasted two hours of my life. My kids haven't eaten dinner, i haven't gotten any laundry done, and then that just adds to the level of burnout. Like I'm so tired of always having to do laundry. Why can't my kids do their own laundry, right? Like I want for people to just kind of hear how debilitating this can be And you know I'm just using a very simple example, but I know in the work I do I think that happens for folks a lot in the classroom. Oh, here we are again, the same situation, the same kid or the same coworker of mine, and it becomes sort of this spiral, downward spiral of how that just perpetuates these feelings of burnout for people.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, i mean that's exactly right And it's almost a vicious cycle And I think when we are feeling that burnout or that depression, whatever it may be, we're desperately searching for that dopamine hit right.
Speaker 2:We don't want to feel bad all the time, So maybe scrolling on social media or watching Netflix for a few hours. It gives us not only that dopamine, but it also gives us that escape from our reality, because our reality is hard to face. I have to get up and do the dishes, but I'm so exhausted The sink is overflowing. You know what? I'm just going to use this, you know escape technique and watch. I'm not going to deal with it right now. And then the two hours is up and the problem is still there.
Speaker 2:And then, like you said, it's that spiral, it's that cycle. Oh, i'm such a failure, i can't keep up. I didn't do the dishes And now it's nine o'clock at night. I have to go to bed, i have to get kids ready for bed. They, you know, i stuck out a TV dinner. It's just so much shame and guilt. So it's really tough And I think you know you said that it's such a simple example, but I think it's such a common one. I think it's such a common experience that people can really relate to and struggle with.
Speaker 1:So let's say we have listeners here, right, who have been in this state of physical, emotional, mental exhaustion due to excessive and prolonged periods of stress, right, like, let's say, maybe you would even kind of describe it that way, and now we're giving you a label, we're giving you another word to use to describe it, and that's burnout. Right, let's start by talking about some things that folks can do if they already are experiencing burnout, and then I think we go to like how do we prevent this in the future?
Speaker 2:Unfortunately for the depending on the person in the situation. but if it's extreme burnout, whether it's with a family member, a friend, a job, sometimes the only way to quote unquote cure that burnout is to remove that situation. So sometimes it's not a matter of fixing the burnout. Sometimes it's just too extreme And sometimes you do you do have to quit that job. Sometimes you do have to quit that relationship. Sometimes you need to break up with that partner. if things aren't getting better. You don't see things getting better.
Speaker 2:Sometimes the only option and way to get out of it is to get rid of that relationship and ends that relationship. And that could be hard for people to hear, especially if it's somebody you've been friends with for a really long time. that can be hard And I think that that is hard to face. So again, i do recommend therapy, talking that through, talking through your options And if that's something that you really want to do.
Speaker 2:you might have been at that job for a really long time And that could be hard. to you know, changing jobs in itself is really difficult and takes a lot of energy And I think a lot of times people stay at a toxic job or a job that's burning them out because they don't have that energy and it takes a lot of energy to leave a job. So that is really tough And it's a hard position to be in. but just keeping in mind that either ending that relationship, though it's really hard, switching jobs even though it takes a lot of energy and time and hard work, it will be worth it in the end because you will feel better if that is the cause of your burnout.
Speaker 1:I think that has become an easier notion to consider. Five to 10 years ago, people quitting a job because of burnout, i don't think it was as common. This whole great resignation, i think, this whole idea of you know honestly where we're at with many teachers. Many teachers are leaping the field because, look, this is such a high burnout profession. There are lots of other ways to make money. That's what teachers feel when they leave.
Speaker 1:So if we're at that like man, this job is really the cause And I know it. I'm terrified. I'm going to work with a therapist. I'm going to find a trusted friend who can help me kind of talk through this. If it's a relationship, i'm going to work through this. Let's say, maybe you're not either able, if we're not able, to quit this job and maybe our level of burnout is not like 100. Maybe they're just like in a solid 74. If I know that my job is a big part of my burnout And I know I can't quit, are there other things at your job that you might be able to focus on to reduce that level of burnout?
Speaker 2:Oh, definitely, i would say also, not even just with the job, but let your loved ones know that you're struggling with burnout at your job.
Speaker 2:If you have a partner at home, say you know what I feel, so burned out from my job. would you mind helping out more, whatever that looks like for you? So if you are the one who usually does the cooking, hey, can you cook a few times a week? I can't handle it. Leaning on your outside supports That has to do with your job, but it's outside of your job. right, You're looking for that support outside of your job. So, when it comes to within your job, do you have a coworker that you can talk to or confide in, say that you're having a really hard time? Do you have a really good manager or supervisor you can talk to and say, hey, I'm really struggling. Is there any way I could get some help? Find out if your job offers employee benefit services. Some jobs do offer therapy sessions and things like that Somebody to talk to. So those are a few things that you could do A big thing.
Speaker 2:I know a lot of people get burned out that are perfectionists. Are you a perfectionist at your job, Letting go of some of that perfectionism? Does the task have to be A plus work, or can you settle for a B? So looking at that as well, it just depends on what kind of person you are, what kind of job you have. If you're talking with clients all day, every day, it just really depends on your particular situation. but really leaning on that support, asking the loved ones in your life for help, talking to a trusted coworker or supervisor or manager, finding out your options, evaluating your options. What are your options? Are you able to scale back a little bit? Are you able to delegate some of that work? It definitely depends on the individual.
Speaker 1:But I love that you start this whole conversation that let other people know you're struggling.
Speaker 1:I mean, that's really what you said is kind of the first step is if you need to work something else out at your job, your first step is to tell other people that you love so they can help you.
Speaker 1:And everybody has a certain level of energy to give each day right, and that is not the same every day. And so I think about kind of this like temperature gauge, where, like, if your job uses up all of your energy and you've only got like a little bit left over to give by the time you get home and you have to cook dinner and you have to navigate arguments between your two kids, you don't have any space left over. And so you gotta realize that some of this irritability and some of this fatigue and not really feeling great, maybe because you just don't have the extra space, and so by talking with people in your life that can help you and then not feeling guilty for asking for help is our first sort of step. It's great. Any other thoughts you have about overall ways to kind of lessen the burnout, if I'm already kind of there?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, definitely, and so this goes for in your personal life as well, if you're feeling burned out with a certain relationship in your life. But also building boundaries is very important, whether that's at work or with a person in your life. Building those boundaries And that could be very hard, and I think one of the hardest part for people about building those boundaries is the pushback you get from the people that you're building the boundaries for. So that could be really tough, but so, so important. And also we live in a technological world. We live in a world where our attention is in so many places at once and we've really lost, i think, that ability to be in the present moment. We've lost our attention span. So, definitely, limiting your social media if that's something that you know that you go to but you have that cycle of it makes you feel worse.
Speaker 2:So those kinds of things trying to get on a really good sleep schedule go to bed at the same time every single night, try to wake up at the same time every day, have a nice relaxing bedtime routine, whether that's having your diffuser, your essential oil diffuser a lot of people like that. But I will put let's insert the cats. Some essential oils are toxic to cats, so if you have pets, be careful of that. And whether you have humidifier, you read before bed, you meditate before bed. Those are really great things. There's so many different apps that you can use to meditate and help you sleep. Oh, another big one for working is take your lunch break. So many people work lunch Take a lunch break people.
Speaker 2:You need to take your lunch break And I think a lot of times it's really helpful if you get out of the office go for a walk during your lunch break.
Speaker 2:That could be really helpful as well. Take your vacation time. A majority of Americans do not take their PTO, their time off. They don't call out sick. If you're sick, call out sick. So things like that. And I think that's a really big mindset shift because we are in this kind of hustle culture And again, to call out sick I know for me too, you feel that guilt and oh, i'm not at work, they need me like it will be okay, the building is not going to fall down if you're not there a day. But some jobs do make it difficult to call out. Some jobs don't offer pay time off, some jobs don't offer sick time. So again, that goes with your particular situation.
Speaker 2:You can definitely something I'm really big into because I'm not exactly a morning person. I'm really big into clothing and meal prepping. So meal prepping for the whole week. I'll make a top aware for lunch every like a healthy meal. Try to get unhealthy meals. Try to stay away from processed foods. Take out foods if you can, fast foods, because you know those affect our mental health as well. So try to get in those fruits and veggies if you can, if you have a really busy type of job and fast food is the only thing that you could eat during lunch Bring an apple, you know. So try to do that as well. So I meal prep for the week. I have a top aware for every single day and I could just grab it in the morning. That's really helpful.
Speaker 2:And just try to automate different things in your life if you can. So like I have a Roomba, if you could afford a Roomba, that really helps with those after work tasks. You don't have to vacuum, do different things, like if you can do order your groceries online and have them delivered or pick up, or I know a lot of people are really into those Like Hello Fresh and Blue Apron. Those really help. So if there's any way you could automate your life in certain ways, that could be really helpful.
Speaker 2:And again, you can't do it all, it's impossible. It doesn't matter if you're the best parent, you just you can't do it all. It's not possible. So delegate the tasks in your, in your home. So if you can have your partner do certain things and really talk.
Speaker 2:With a lot of families that I've worked with in the mental health clinic, we come up with a chore chart and we all sit together and come up with it together. What are the kids able to do? What is your partner able to do? What are you able to do? Limit the negative people in your life, because that is draining right. Those people that complain all the time, those people that you will only have a certain amount of energy, how you said, and if our job is taking a lot of energy, if we're burned out from our jobs, we only have that certain amount of energy left, and those toxic you know people can, negative people can take the rest of that energy. So there's a lot of different things you can do. You need to look at your particular situation. What exactly is burning you out and what are the supports that you have in your life?
Speaker 1:I wrote down every single thing you said and I hope that people can kind of rewind and make a list of all of the potential ways that folks can do these small not all of them are easy but small ways of investing in yourself. I mean everything you said right. Whether you're investing the time to meal prep the day before, you're investing your money to have somebody clean your house once a month, Whether you're investing your energy and having conversations with your spouse or partner to tell them that you need help, See these things as a direct investment in your overall health, and every investment costs something. Yeah, exactly, So you're not going to find an easy fix that doesn't cost something, whether it's money or time or energy or effort. But if you're not investing that time, then you're not on the path to wellness.
Speaker 2:Exactly, and one big one that I actually left out. That is, when you're burned out, when you're feeling exhausted, it's the last thing in the whole world you want to do.
Speaker 2:But getting in a healthy workout routine, that physical exercise, I know, for me, I never want to, It's the last thing I want to do, but it's so, so important. I mean, working out really helps your mental health. a lot really gets out. all that energy, that negative energy, that pent up energy. It's just so good for you and a lot of people don't want to, but it's again investing in yourself And sometimes we have to force ourselves and wellness sometimes looks like putting ourselves through torture to benefit our future selves.
Speaker 1:It's brilliant And I wish we had a whole additional hour because I so badly want to talk about burnout in our kids and how we don't miss it, for you know, we might see this as being lazy or being disrespectful or not caring or just not having any motivation, and we mess this up all the time. Okay, we don't have time for that today, but we are going to have time for that at some point.
Speaker 2:Absolutely Yeah, the kids are burned out. So if you're feeling burned out, the kids are feeling burned out too. So just keep that in mind.
Speaker 1:And they're watching you and how you're dealing with burnout. Mm, hmm, mm, hmm. Yeah, okay, i think a lot of the things you described could also be preventative things, right? So if we're doing these things well, we could kind of decrease the likelihood or try to prevent some of the burnout. Are there other strategies that you help people with? in terms of all right, i feel like I'm in a pretty good place. How do I try not to kind of get in a bad space?
Speaker 2:Oh, yes, definitely. Well, one thing I would say is structuring your day is really helpful for people getting into a really healthy routine. Develop healthy habits. That could be at work or at home. So again, for working as well, if you're feeling really burned out at work when you're home, don't maybe don't have your work email on your phone, things like that. Express your feelings however you want to express them. Whether you're a talker and you talk about your feelings, you write out your feelings you like to journal depends on you. But definitely express your feelings. Don't keep them inside. Let your family know what's going on. If you're upset, if something happened at work, if something happened in the relationship that bothered you, because that could just perpetuate the burnout, cause that burnout. If things are piling up and building and things do build on each other, it's kind of a snowball effect. So definitely that again. Get in a healthy workout routine. Try to work out a few times a week. Try to get outside. Go for a walk on your lunch break. Take your lunch break. Don't get to the point where you're burned out. Oh, i have to take my lunch break. Take it now, before you're burned out. Get in that habit And that just sets expectations at work too.
Speaker 2:If somebody tries to stick a meeting in your calendar, you know, have your lunch break. Know that my lunch break is non-negotiable. You know. Setting those boundaries and expectations at work is very important. Again, try to automate your life now So you're not getting to the point where you have to. You want to do all these things now so that when you're burned out and you don't have that energy, you're not struggling to put these things in place. So look at what would make your life easier now and try to stick to those things. And I think structure and routine are really good. And those, again, automating planning and letting the people in your life know what is going on with you, because a lot of time, especially parents, they take everything on themselves and they don't want to have that shame and that guilt and that fear of feeling like a failure. It's okay, just know and that mindset shift. You can't do it all yourself, it's impossible.
Speaker 1:I couldn't love this whole episode so much more. So many tangible things y'all. I mean these are things that maybe you've tried before but you haven't stuck with. Maybe you know that they're healthy for you, you know that they're good for you and there's a reason you're not doing them. Our encouragement for you today is to make the investment, prioritize your wellness today. Tell a friend, get an accountability partner, write it on your wall, whatever you've got to do to tell yourself I am going to prioritize my health today and from here on out. And maybe you put a list of all those strategies. Maybe it is you're going to have fun with your friends once a week and you're going to leave the building for lunch. Maybe it's that you're going to have date night once a month.
Speaker 1:I mean, there are a lot of ways that you know you need to take care of yourself, and I find that maybe it is that we're already burned out. Maybe it is that it's just easy to fall into old habits. It's not that folks don't always know. I think all of these ideas are excellent for people to see up front. I find and you probably do too that it's like people kind of know what they kind of need to do. They just can't get themselves to do it. And so we're saying to you today you're not going to feel like doing this, but you have to do it anyway. You know what I mean Exactly? I think that that's the key, that's the key right.
Speaker 2:And when we're in that situation and we don't have that energy, we don't have that concentration, we're struggling, we forget, we forget what makes we go to the easiest thing, and the easiest thing is picking up your phone and watching something And laying on the couch and watching Netflix. We just go to the easiest thing to not put in that energy that we don't have. So, like you said, write down the list, make a little coping skills box or something, make a pile of things that make you feel better.
Speaker 1:It's so good. We could have talked for so much longer. Okay, I know You have your own podcast too, where you share all sorts of great things about mental wellness as well, and you have a practice, so just tell folks where they can find you and hear more about the work you're doing.
Speaker 2:So you can listen to my podcast. It's called The Wellness Project with DES, so I interview experts in the field of mental health and wellness, but I also interview people that have struggled with their mental health or are currently struggling with their mental health, and they share their stories and their journeys with their mental health. So you can also you can listen to that. Anywhere you listen to podcasts. You can also find me. I'm usually in my Facebook group every day. I have a community about mental health and wellness. I run some workshops in there And I'm in there every day with mental health and wellness tips And it's just a nice community. People are able to share things in there. It's a safe space. And also you can check out my website. I do have an article on burnout prevent, symptoms, prevention, addressing burnout And my website is accordingtodescom. So those are the places that you could typically find me.
Speaker 1:Amazing. Thank you for all of these really tangible things and for being real with kind of where we're all at, And next time we're going to talk teens and we're going to talk cats.
Speaker 2:Yes, that would be great.
Speaker 1:I can't wait.
Speaker 2:All right y'all. Thanks for listening.
Speaker 1:Thanks for being here And until next time. stay safe and stay well.
Speaker 2:Thank you for having me.
