Things You Learn in Therapy
Things You Learn in Therapy
Ep 91: Nurturing Resilience and Independence in Children: A Conversation with School Counselor Katie Preston
Ever wondered how to foster resilience and independence in our children? Join us as we unwrap the layers of educational support with the insightful school counselor Katie Preston. Katie brings her rich background in social work and counseling into our heartwarming conversation, imparting her wisdom on the art of asking for help and the importance of building resilience through self-advocacy. We navigate the home-school connection and explore the powerful teachings of "The Gift of Failure" by Jess Lahey.
This episode also paints the broad strokes of educational paths, emphasizing that college is not the only avenue to success. We highlight the importance of adaptability in career journeys and the significance of life skills in tandem with continuous learning. Whether our kids are college-bound or stepping straight into the workforce, personal development is key. From the vantage point of parenting, we consider how each child's journey might differ and the dreams we harbor for them, setting the stage for future discussions on sibling dynamics and resources to support every child’s unique educational experience. Join us for an enlightening episode that promises to leave you with a fresh perspective on guiding our youth towards independence and success.
This podcast is meant to be a resource for the general public, as well as fellow therapists/psychologists. It is NOT meant to replace the meaningful work of individual or family therapy. Please seek professional help in your area if you are struggling. #breakthestigma #makewordsmatter #thingsyoulearnintherapy #thingsyoulearnintherapypodcast
Feel free to share your thoughts at www.makewordsmatterforgood.com or email me at Beth@makewordsmatterforgood.com
www.bethtrammell.com
Okay, everyone. So we're back again, and this is Dr Beth Tramell, and I am a licensed psychologist and I am really excited about today because I have such an amazing guest on here with me today my great, great friend and school counselor, katie Preston Girl. Thanks for being here.
Speaker 2:I'm so happy you're here. You're so welcome. Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1:One of my favorite books is actually the Gift of Failure by Jess Kalehi, and in her book she talks a lot about the home school connection and the importance of allowing kids to fail. But really so much of it was written about the home school connection, parent-teacher connection, that sort of thing, and so I knew I needed to have some folks connected to the school to come and chat with us about what our kids need to know. So before we get to that, why don't you tell us a little bit about you and the work you do? And just one fun thing about yourself?
Speaker 2:Okay, that sounds great. Well, as Dr Tramell said, my name's Katie Preston. I am a professional school counselor at Yorktown Middle School and Yorktown High School. I am over the eighth and ninth graders is currently who I serve. But I've been at Yorktown for 14 years and before I took this new position as eighth and ninth grade counselor I was strictly middle school sixth through eighth grade and even before I became a school counselor because I'm a little older than most, we're just having 14 years in I was a social worker and I worked with hospice care and I also worked at a women's shelter for about 10 years before I became a school counselor.
Speaker 2:So one fun fact about myself is that I do have a little dog named Zeus, and it's kind of a fun fact that he, when people ask me my dog's name, it's a big, huge name right for this tiny little dog, while my son named him. So I have two, two boys myself and one is 21 and one's 23. And so my youngest, who has a big sense of humor, thought he said that little dog needs a big name. So we named him Zeus and he's about seven years old. He's Yorkie B Sean mix and he's a perfect lap dog.
Speaker 1:Oh my gosh, I love that and I don't think I ever heard that story.
Speaker 2:I probably not. I used to actually be really scared of dogs until my husband, which you know. He was the canine officer for about 10 years and we had this big German shepherd. Believe it or not, this German shepherd won me over and I became a big dog lover. And then we got our little Zeus dog because Nathan said we needed a lap dog.
Speaker 1:Oh my gosh, that's so fun. That's such a fun story. Yeah, I've known you for so long and I didn't know that story.
Speaker 2:This is true. We've known each other like 16 or 17 years. That's true, I know.
Speaker 1:It's so fun. You know we met and as I was getting my masters in counseling and you were getting your masters in school counseling, and it's what I mean. There's a lot of things I love about you, but I think the connection that you have to social work in the school building really gives you that background of mental health, you know, and just kind of like paying attention not just to the academic stuff but really the social, emotional stuff too.
Speaker 2:Right. Well, it's such social workers, such a systemic approach that really that's the first. You know way that when I got into doing social work and learning that approach, then when I went into school counseling it's like I still had the same thought process of it's systemic. You know, it's the whole child, it's a whole family, it's the whole everything. So I really do appreciate that about social work. You know teaching me that at first and then going into school counseling.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I love it. I love it. Well, you know, I think, as we think about kind of a title of what we're going to talk about today, you know kids these days really do need to know. You can almost like an insider's look about what the teachers and school administrators expect of them or hope for them. So what are some of the things that you know based on your experience and based on your you know, working with teachers all the time and hearing from them, what are these little kids these days need to know?
Speaker 2:Well, there's lots of things, but you said top three, so we need to get to kind of, you know, shorter than you know an hour. Yeah, I'm million that I could, I could share. I actually did reach out to some of my favorite educators just because I felt like I didn't want to just pigeonhole my ideas of what I had. But I reached out to administrators that I that I love and then a couple of science and math teachers to get their view, and so I took all of what they had and just kind of made three themes that I felt like were most important right now for students to know.
Speaker 1:Love it.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So starting with the first one, I feel like is, to me, the biggest thing Asking for help is a strength, it's not a weakness. And I think so many kids think, oh my goodness, if I ask for help, it's gonna show that I'm weak or it's gonna show that I'm not smart, the teachers gonna think I'm dumb. Where, in reality, is all of us teachers education? We all feel like we want you to ask for help. You know, in fact, probably there's gonna be ten other people in the room that have the same question, or you know, don't know exactly what you don't know. So if you ask, then we're actually Teaching everyone again and being able to answer that question. I know so many of our teachers too, like they are there, they want to help you, they want to be there before school for you, they want to be there after school, they want to answer an email. They just want to help you. So ask for that.
Speaker 1:You know it's so interesting it has. It has just occurred to me right now that right in elementary school, our kids ask lots of questions at home, like I'm thinking as a parent, yeah, but my kids ask lots of questions when they're little elementary age, but as they get older, I am pushing them to be more independent at home, right. So I'm pushing them basically to stop asking so many questions.
Speaker 2:I could see that. I mean. I mean I happen, though I do. I know what you're saying. They're like try to figure it out. Yes, you know.
Speaker 1:As you're saying this, it's just striking me that, like I Probably still need to preach it like intentionally preach at home, you still need to ask questions of your teachers, or you still need to ask questions of me if you don't know. Yeah, even while I'm teaching independence.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, and I actually think this is my personal opinion. I can't say there's scientific proof behind it, but we go through these like when we're, you know, okay, kindergarten, through probably sixth and seventh grade. We will ask questions. Yeah, they'll go through this time of six through Probably sixth grade, so 12 years old, so I would say 35 and 40 years old, even maybe, like we don't want to ask the questions because we could look stupid. Yes, I don't want to look stupid. That's humiliating, that's embarrassing, that fear of Thing that we go through.
Speaker 2:And then, when you get a little bit older even I know we're not talking to older adults necessarily right now but you start going. There's so much power and freedom and going, I don't know, yeah, I don't know. Let me ask a question. And I think that there is so much power and I want kids to know that at ages of you know, 13, 14, 15, it's powerful to say no, I don't know. Let me ask the question, let me ask this person that, because we can't have all the answers, people or experts in their fields, for a reason, let them be that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think that's so brilliant and really like I had never really thought about it. And now, as as a middle school counselor right, and you're talking to other middle school teachers and high school teachers, it makes sense that the emphasis is Ask a question. Yes, you know, because our elementary teachers are probably like, yeah, that may not have been the first thing on their mind to tell, to tell folks right now, right, but middle school and high school it is. It is reminding kids it's okay to ask questions and it is a sign of strength right.
Speaker 1:Not weakness, and and I you know I'm pulling in the parenting stuff from my perspective too that it's like, yeah, because I'm not, I'm not modeling that and I am not emphasizing that at home for that age group because, like I said, I have it in my head that I want them to be independent and they shouldn't ask questions, right, maybe that's not what, maybe that's not all I should be doing.
Speaker 2:Be good to Steven say hey, I love your question, let's see if I can answer it. That way then you start empowering them to think about how to answer it or who they could ask would be best to ask. I don't know. But yeah, some of that stuff they kids do have to think on their own and sometimes they're quick to ask without trying to figure it out on their own. But more than anything we want them to ask.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I love that. That's great. Okay, ask the question. It's a sign of strength. It's not a sign of weakness.
Speaker 2:Absolutely Love that.
Speaker 2:Number two your education is about you. It's not about your friends. While having a social life, it is a huge part of your school and life and I am certainly one to say I remember so much about my social life in middle school and high school and that's a big deal. We're learning so much from social interactions and we want that. But your education is something that no one can take from you and it's going to have more of an impact on your future than your friends will. It really won't what you do with it. You know, taking the classes that fit you and doing your work and following your path and figuring out what your strengths are is bigger than going with what your friends are doing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, I'm just sitting here nodding over and over. I'm like a little bobblehead as you're saying all those things, you know. I'm just like yes, yes, yes, and that's so hard from middle school and high schoolers, right?
Speaker 2:So hard. I hear all the time with like, right now we're going through class selection time. You know where kids have to put in for high school, what they want to take. You know those extra electives and you know they're talking to their friends and what are you going to do? And you know, sometimes even like those higher level classes, that they're you know they can take certain kids can take and it's like, oh, but my friend's not taking that. I don't know that, I want to do it. It's like you know what.
Speaker 2:And even vice versa, sometimes kids that really don't need to be taking their fit for just taking you know that math class and not the AP math class or whatever, but that's a good fit for them because maybe math's not their strength, maybe English shifts and they need to be in. You know that higher level English, who knows? But like trying to fit themselves in that because their friend is instead of going. You know what? That's not my strength. Yeah, is this over here? Or you know I love drama and I'm going to do drama because I'm going to do drama club, because I love it and I'm not going to worry that my friends are going to make fun of me, because I actually do love that. You know, those are things that they need to think about.
Speaker 1:You know it's so interesting. I feel like it also comes back again to doing what's best for you is also a sign of strength.
Speaker 2:Absolutely yeah.
Speaker 1:It's like it feels like it's kind of coming back to that too, where if you have the courage to do the uncomfortable you know being in a class with all your friends may be more comfortable than taking a class that you may be in a class with people you don't know as well, but it's the right fit for you. Being able to do that, having the courage to do that, is absolutely a sign of strength.
Speaker 2:Yes, yeah, and it's hard. It's not easy to step out of where you don't know people, but we know that. But at the same point in time, like for you to say, hey, I know this about myself and I'm going to explore that and do that is, like you said, a huge sign of strength in knowing you and following your path, versus just being concerned about what your friends are doing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I can imagine conversations between parents and teens where the parent is just saying to their teenager like being, like picking classes because you want to be with your friends, that's stupid and that might not be actually helpful. And getting your kid to be convinced to change their mind, right? Actually not a stupid idea. No, it's actually a very logical idea, because we've taught our kids to be social beings. We've taught our kids to want to be around their friends, right. So for them to want to choose, that may not be stupid, but I think a parent may be able to say you know what? Let's look at the decisions you're making and what decisions are best for you, even though I know what you wanna do is hang out with your friends at school. What is the best decision for you?
Speaker 2:Yeah, like, let's look at what you are interested in and the classes that line up with that and you know what, at the end of the day, there's a likelihood that they could take a class you know that would be common with their friends, you know, or something but they're gonna have lunchtime, they're gonna have hallway time. I mean, there is time with friends and social interaction. So I think more reasoning it with kids than just, like you said, saying that's dumb yeah, because it's not it actually does make a lot of sense, yeah.
Speaker 1:I think I'm always trying to help parents see that opening the door and continuing the conversation is always better than just trying to put the hammer down and say that's dumb or we're not doing that. We're doing it my way as the parent, because we're in charge. It's just not gonna be met with the kind of reaction we want. Correct, yeah, I love that. Okay, so your education is about you, not about your friends and what your friends think is best for you. Right, it's about your path.
Speaker 2:Yes, I love that. Your path, your path. Okay, the last one college is not for everyone, but being educated is so. If you want future successes, the key is to be educated in the way that is.
Speaker 1:So I love that.
Speaker 2:We understand. Not everyone is going to go to college or not. Everybody wants to go to college, and that is absolutely okay. What is not okay is choosing to not be educated. So what we're saying is let's show up, let's learn in whatever capacity that is, Even most jobs after high school. If you're saying I'm not gonna go to college, have some sort of teaching aspect, let's go to high school and learn, get that diploma After high school. Whatever you choose to do, go and learn and be educated and do your best. I mean, that's all we're asking. Be successful. Whatever you're choosing, we know college is not for everyone.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I love that and it's so interesting how all of them kind of tie together. It seems it's like, again, it's what is your path Exactly? And I find, and I think you probably would too, but let me know what you think. But there becomes a struggle for both parents and teens when they don't know the end of the path. So they're like I don't know what I wanna do, I don't know what I wanna study, I don't know where I wanna go to college. And it's not really that you have to know what's at the end of your path to keep walking down your path. Correct, that's the nature. Yeah, that it's like. I feel like sometimes parents get so caught up in making sure their teenager knows what's the end of their path instead of just continuing to encourage growth along the path.
Speaker 2:Right, exactly, and seeing where that leads. I mean I've always felt like being 16 and 17,. It's so young to know what do I wanna do with my future. Yeah, and I'm a great example of you can change your career path in your 30s. Yeah, you can go back and you go back to school and I had little kids out of five and seven year old and I went back and got my master's. I mean, you can change it. What's most important is being able to continue on the path, not to get stuck and stopped, but continue being educated, continue having successes, whatever that may be. If you're not going, if you're gonna graduate high school and you're gonna, right away, take a job great, you know. Great, you're earning money and maybe after five years you may say I'm gonna go back to college. Or I'm going to go to college, or maybe you won't. Maybe you're making enough money for yourself that you're happy and you love your job. That's what we want, you know be successful, be happy. You know not one size fits all. We know this.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I love the idea. I mean, I talk about paths a lot and you know, just like, as long as you're moving and making steps towards growth, and so I even try to talk with parents about okay, so what is their next growth edge? You know, maybe they don't know how to do laundry. Yes, that's fine If you're. If you have a kid or a teen who isn't quite sure what the end path or the end goal looks like, I try to just focus on what are the continued growth areas for them. That's gonna make you feel like they're still growing. So maybe they don't have a bank account. Start with a bank account. Maybe they don't know how to cook macaroni. Like, teach those skills towards growth, because that is moving down the path.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, that is gonna go somewhere to serve them. Those skills, those life skills are going to serve them in the future. Yeah, no matter what, and I think that's super important.
Speaker 1:And that's sort of the take home message you're saying, right? Is that like it's about being educated, not necessarily just you're gonna go to college.
Speaker 2:Right, exactly, it's about whatever it is you're choosing to do be educated in that, whatever it is, and be open to learning and keep learning, always keep learning. I'm still learning Me too.
Speaker 1:I love it. I always describe myself as a lifelong learner.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. I mean that will serve you best in the end.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I love that. Okay, so, if you have, is there one thing that is kind of your take home message or one thing that maybe we didn't touch on yet?
Speaker 2:as we kind of wrap up, I mean I think we set it over and over again in that everybody needs to have their own individual path and be following that path, whatever that may be, and keep moving on that path.
Speaker 2:I mean, some days you might be skipping, some days you might be running on the path and you know what. Some days you might be absolutely crawling on it. And when I say that I mean like you know exactly where we're going on that path. Some days you're just like running to it. Other days you know that you're gonna keep going but you're just not sure where the end is. So you're just going slowly, cause you gotta figure this out, you know, and so that's okay. But let's keep going on your own way and figure out your own path.
Speaker 1:You know something that just came up. I know I just said we're almost done, but I think about this from two perspectives One, as a parent of multiple kids, and that what the older kid did isn't necessarily doesn't even have to be what all the other kids behind them do. And so when you said it's your individual path, you know it's okay if it looks different than another path. I think about those parents who may inadvertently like they don't even realize that they're trying to put their second and third and fourth kid in the same path that their older. The older, absolutely, absolutely yes. And then and we probably don't have time for all this, but we probably should do this another time is that sibling stuff right that?
Speaker 2:like I we can have a whole segment on that. Because, let me tell you, my two boys being same parents, two years apart, I can tell you right now they both learn things so differently, they both approach life so differently. And when we're talking about your own path, they both approach their own paths so differently. Like one knew by the time that he was six years old what he wanted to do follow it. The other one was like I don't really know, and la, la, la, oh, the sun's shining, oh, there's a bird, you know.
Speaker 2:And so it was just like, but he kept moving, I mean, he kept going to school and doing, but, yeah, and even just as a parent approaching that, we, my husband and I had two big, big, big time discussions I can think of when it was like, if you continue to parent and approach the path of this second one like the first one, you're going to crush the spirit. If you're going to crush, you're going to crush who he is, You're going to crush that path. Yep, for both of us, we both had to learn how to be different and know that his way of his path is a different way of approaching and going along it than our older one. So absolutely I mean so different.
Speaker 1:I know you know what we are. It already has come to me that we're going to talk about our dreams for our kids, our multiple kids, and how we, as parents have to shift our perspective. Yes, because I think it's critical and I know for sure I'm guilty of it and my kids are still sort of little, but I can see how powerful that kind of discussion could be between parents, right, and saying you can't keep pushing this way Because that's what we do as parents, right, we want to encourage them, we see their potential, we see the things they could do and we just want to kind of push in this direction. And our kids are saying I don't want that path.
Speaker 2:Right, I don't need, I don't want that path and, furthermore, you continue to light a fire like that. That kind of way doesn't work for me. You know I need this. I know and you know, like I have one child who needs. You know that he needs that in your face. Like you can do this, yeah, the other one is more like so what do you think, how do you, what are you feeling about that?
Speaker 2:You know it's just so different, I know, and that approach even needs to be that way, oh my gosh. Ok, so we're going to do another one.
Speaker 1:That'll be a different episode and I am so excited about it because it is so necessary. So, for anyone who is new and would like to follow on Facebook, my Facebook for Make Words Matter is MWM with kids Make Words Matter MWM with kids, and my website is wwwMakeWordsMatterForGoodcom. And, katie, I am thrilled to have had you share all of this with us. I know there are so many little nuggets that people are going to be able to walk away with and what just valuable insight for us to know about teachers and administrators and what we need our kids to know these days. So thank you for being here, thank you for being with us, and I'm excited for the next one.
Speaker 2:Thank you, I am too. I'm so excited. Thanks for having me and letting me share what we feel like kids need to know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's excellent. Ok, until next time we'll see you. Bye everyone, bye Epic and эта.
