Things You Learn in Therapy
Things You Learn in Therapy
Ep 116: Practical Self-Care in the Age of Social Media with Jacque Tyrell
Can social media influencers unintentionally worsen mental health issues among their followers? Join us as we explore this provocative question with Dr. Beth Trammell and our insightful guest, Jacque Tyrrell. Together, we dissect the complex relationship between social media and mental health, shedding light on how well-meaning advice can sometimes lead to self-deprecating thoughts. We highlight the critical importance of context when discussing sensitive mental health topics online. Jackie also shares her dedication to improving workplace mental health and her plans for expanding her practice.
Discover the pitfalls of relying on shallow social media self-help advice and the misconceptions surrounding therapy. We dive into the necessity of actionable steps beyond merely consuming content and discuss practical ways to apply self-help techniques. We also challenge the unrealistic portrayals of self-care on social media, emphasizing essential practices that truly enhance well-being. Tune in for an enriching conversation about balancing social media use as mental health professionals and accessing valuable resources for better mental health support. Don’t miss this eye-opening episode that reveals the reality behind social media’s impact on mental health and the true essence of self-care.
This podcast is meant to be a resource for the general public, as well as fellow therapists/psychologists. It is NOT meant to replace the meaningful work of individual or family therapy. Please seek professional help in your area if you are struggling. #breakthestigma #makewordsmatter #thingsyoulearnintherapy #thingsyoulearnintherapypodcast
If you or someone you know is struggling with mental health concerns, please contact 988 or seek a treatment provider in your area.
To learn more about Jacque and her practice or to contact her, visit: https://myidealprogress.com/
Feel free to share your thoughts at www.makewordsmatterforgood.com or email me at Beth@makewordsmatterforgood.com
If you are a therapist or psychologist and want to be a guest on the show, please complete this form to apply: https://forms.gle/ooy8QirpgL2JSLhP6
www.bethtrammell.com
Hey listener, welcome back. I'm your host, dr Beth Trammell. I'm a psychologist and professor of psychology at Indiana University East, where I also direct the Master's in Mental Health Counseling program, and I love talking with people about mental health topics and I am so privileged to get to talk with fellow people who are passionate about mental health and getting high quality information out to people. And Jackie Tyrell is here to do that very same thing with me, and I'm so excited.
Speaker 1:Actually, we came in today with a plan and then we have totally pivoted oh, that word that we have all loved since COVID. I just I feel like the word pivot has grown in popularity. Probably the Google search of pivot has, you know, multiplied exponentially since COVID. But you and I have done that. And the topic we're going to talk about today because I think as we were chatting, it became more and more apparent that this topic continues to come up for both of us, but also I'm not sure it's one that I have talked about on the show. I don't think the other topic we had we had talked about on the show either, but this one's going to be a really fun one to kind of dig into. So, jackie, can you introduce yourself and tell us one fun thing about you, and then we're going to dive in.
Speaker 2:So I am Jackie Tyrell and I am the founder of Ideal Progress in Maryland, which is kind of my little self starter group practice. It's not quite a group practice yet, it's just little me myself and I, but my plans are definitely to grow that into a group practice of awesome practitioners. For the time being it is me seeing people that have high functioning anxiety, perfectionism, people pleasing, all of that anxiety related stuff. But also my fun fact is I'm expanding already and, yes, like group practice in the works. But I also have a workplace mental health segment in the work works as well, which means that I have courses. I have one, burnout, that I'm almost completed. I have one that's for mental like, just learning about mental health in general in the workplace.
Speaker 2:I also have one on mindset and I think we you and I have touched on this a few times in your episodes Like I am like such a dork when it comes to mindset stuff. I can talk about mindset like all day long. I'm like really in tune to it. I think I teach it well, I think I explain it well. So one of my most like favorite courses that I've designed is one for mindset, but specifically for helping professionals like how can you hone in and recognize what a growth mindset is, how to how to obtain a growth mindset and how to sustain it, because it is something that you have to continue to work through. So that's kind of. The exciting part for me is that I have kind of these courses rolling out and hopefully the first one will be launched in the next six months.
Speaker 1:Yay, I love that as a fun fact for you and when we end today, we're going to make sure that people know how they can find you and be able to take those courses, because I think I mean, all the things you're talking about are so real and so true to kind of a huge portion of our day, like in the workplace.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it is.
Speaker 1:I love that. I love you doing that. So yeah, as we were kind of chatting before we started recording, you know we had this idea about talking about kind of common things that come up in therapy a lot, trying to kind of pull the curtain back, which I think is a great topic that we are going to record another episode for. And in doing that, you had shared a story about some things that you see on social media, and so can you share that story, and then we're going to dig into kind of what we're talking about today.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So the one story I was sharing has to do with, like, the approach of people and their mindsets, expectations and their maybe even self-esteem through the use of social media. But let me kind of back up for a second. This is in the context of a non-therapist. So, like you know, I'm online and I'm following this woman. I love her. She's great, she's very spunky, she's bright, she has a lot of great tips.
Speaker 2:Her platform is directed towards women that are kind of lost in their wardrobes.
Speaker 2:They don't know where to start back up for themselves anymore. They are looking for kind of getting themselves out of that rut, right, and so her content is highly geared towards this woman who is seeking to rediscover herself in her fashion, which is all great and I love it and I love the message. But one of her prompts to these people to get themselves starting to think about how to think of themselves differently is she's kind of coming from the lens of what are these women struggling with really like, is it really the wardrobe or is it your self-image? Is it the way that you see yourself in the clothing? Is it the way you worry about how other people perceive you? Great question to ask. Yeah, her prompt to this, to get people to think about it differently, is how can you love yourself more? A part of me really loves this question. The other part of me is like missing a whole lot of context. Deeply struggling with perfectionism, people pleasing or even a history of being gaslit, is going to answer that in a way that's actually very self depreciating.
Speaker 1:Yeah, oh, I love this start and I think the thing that we continued to kind of come back to is, as people who you know believe in. You know, obviously getting high quality information out to people on mental health and ways to cope and that sort of thing. You know, obviously that's why we're here today. But it's tricky with social media because you know some folks who are non therapists, unintentionally, right.
Speaker 1:I don't blame this person for throwing out a question that is thought-provoking and important and taps into these topics around mental health. Without realizing it. The consumer of that social media, the person who's just scrolling through, sees this question and then what do we do with it? And so this issue of social media, mental health, or you know where people are getting mental health advice through social media, can be dangerous and harmful, and sometimes it can be helpful and powerful. I think there are some great therapists and psychologists who are doing it well. I don't want to dissuade people one way or the other. I just think some of the issues around social media mental health can be. It's just really important, we're aware of them.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean because the person who's struggling that might hear that message, might think to themselves something along the lines of why well, why don't I already love myself more? Like what's wrong with me that I don't love myself in that way, and so like, while that question is very powerful and, in the right hands, can be met with a lot of positive change, in the hands of somebody who isn't sure of themselves or is in a place of some kind of instability is a little, I think, dangerous. At worst there is some danger at that, but I think danger is a little bit of a strong word. Yeah, I just think it's a challenge because it you're reaching this huge audience and sure Maybe the person that she's asking this to is for the people that are a little bit more sure of themselves, is for the people that are a little bit more ready to tackle that question in a way that meets positive change.
Speaker 2:But you cannot control the fact that the people on the other side are also consuming this. And are we necessarily asking for this person to change their approach? No, but we are kind of advocating for that side of caution when we're delivering messages like this, whether it's something even seemingly as positive as that one. There's kind of this opposite side of it where we have to consider. You know what happens when somebody takes this and is now spiraling down.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like they just aren't in a place to be able to receive it, or it causes them to spiral or and we can't control that when we put things out into the universe. But I think it's that thing that makes some of us therapists or psychologists like nervous about doing things on social media is because, you know, we want to do it well and part of our ethics code is to do no harm and to do good. You know, those are two big key pieces of our ethics code and so you know I was I was sharing with someone else earlier this week that you know I have kind of this love hate relationship for social media, both as a consumer and as a sort of content creator, that I want to put high quality information out there. But you know, in the, in the example of like TikTok or even Instagram, right, it's like I feel like, because I'm a words person, it's like how do I get this one piece of information across in a 90 second video or a 15 second video? You know it's like I don't, I don't know how to do that, and so I just avoid it altogether.
Speaker 1:I did do TikTok for a hot minute and then I felt like maybe I'm just too old for TikTok. You know, I just can't like, I just don't think that way, you know. But anyway, it was this issue and I have a feeling that maybe I'm not alone in that. You know, some of us professionals are like hey, we would love to share, we have a lot of expertise to share, but it's tricky to make sure that it's not being taken out of context or taken as the whole truth when it's only 90 seconds of the truth.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and that's right. And that's why it is tricky Because, like the example that I just gave, is somebody who is well meaning.
Speaker 1:Yeah, oh sure.
Speaker 2:Yeah, right, and and maybe, maybe not coming from a trained professional, but definitely well meaning so we add that we are trained professionals and we can and us ourselves can be still trapped in that bubble of missing context and that bubble of there's multiple layers here and there's a lot of different angles that we can look at this, and that 90 seconds, or even some of the swipable ones that we come across on Instagram, just aren't enough space to convey something that usually takes years for people to actually overcome.
Speaker 1:It's so true, like how do I capture six or eight sessions of you know like a common theme in therapy and in one textbooks.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, I think part of it too is for us to recognize that the point of social media isn't always to rectify or to help people resolve these things within themselves. So I think that if that's one assurance that we could put out there, I think that is something that we should put out there, is that okay, we're not trying to solve that person's challenge, but we are trying to bring attention to it. And so how can we bring attention with the juggling of all the other things that we have, with the juggling of all the tidbits of information, in a way that is truthful and in a way that's not pop psychology because that's a whole nother topic that we can get on right now and in a way that helps the person want to connect with us more?
Speaker 1:You know, as you were talking, the thing that came to mind, for me too, is, like, you know, social media. In my mind, you know the posts on social media and mental health. Social media are meant to make it seem easy and fun. Yeah, and the very thing that I say to clients in the in the first session is that therapy is not meant to feel good. You know, like if therapy feels good all the time, you're probably not doing the work you need to do. So you had a reaction to that. You were even like, kind of like, like holding your, holding your chest, sort of like oh man, that that's a moment right there. Like was your reaction to that.
Speaker 2:Because it's so true that when you're not going in the deep end and you're living in the shallow end and the shallow end feels safe and it's familiar and it's something that you can depend on, you can touch the bottom and there's no dark waters, there's nothing around you that really provoke any amount of fear, yeah, or risk.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, it can feel very, it can feel kind of refreshing in the way that maybe it's cool waters, right, you're getting yourself started. But if you never start to swim or you never make your way over to the deep end, where it's hard and you can't touch the bottom and sometimes the waters are not crystal clear, then you there should be some questions popping up in your head, like one am I being fully honest with what my goal is in therapy or have I defined what I want clearly at a therapy? Or two am I working with the right therapist? Yeah, because all of us have different tool sets. Right, like all of us are built differently, all of us may not have the connection or the tools or the skills within ourselves to help the person into the deep end. Some of us are great at introducing people into the shallow end so that they can make their way into the deep end. But it's about that awareness of when are you kind of finished your swimming lessons in the shallow end to progress your way over to the deep end.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, I love this metaphor of the deep end and the shallow end and that our goal as therapists maybe sometimes is to like let you see that the deep end involves taking a risk and it involves like trusting in some things beyond just your own ability to keep your feet on the bottom right.
Speaker 1:And so, whether that is you know the therapist who's going to go to the deep end with you, or maybe it's a flotation device that the therapist has kind of offered as a solution that when you go in the deep end you're not going to drown Like, but at the end of the day, like if you're seeing things on social media that relate to mental health, health and they feel like, oh well, that's cute and oh well, that sounds nice, that's only like such a small portion of what therapy. You know what therapy really is Like. I'm not saying that it's all bad and hard and heavy. I mean that was part of the other topic that we were going to talk about, part of the other topic that we were going to talk about. But you know, if you come into therapy thinking it's like what it looks like on social media, it's gonna feel a lot harder and you're probably not gonna like your therapist a whole lot.
Speaker 2:Because, well, let's face it. So most of social media is shallow yeah, for sure, and in the shallow end, yeah, now, not all of it is. Some of it is, you know, going to be that thought provoking, and I've seen like some amazing content geared towards helping somebody see the deep end of things, but without a life jacket that could be really risky.
Speaker 1:Totally, Totally.
Speaker 1:Something that you had mentioned before we pushed record is that the goal of social media, in these tiny snippets, is to kind of capture the consumer, to learning more.
Speaker 1:They're like hearing the you know 30 second discussion on how to make yourself happier, or hashtag self care, which makes me want to barf, and then you know, then they don't, they just keep scrolling, you know. And so one thing that I was thinking about as we were, as we were talking, is just a real encouragement for folks who are, you know, seeing kind of self-help or self-improvement things on social media is to take the next step and go further. So if that's looking at that person's website and reading a blog or watching a video or taking a course that they offer, that you know, or learning more about the topic that they're talking about, not just sort of stopping with. Like learning more about the topic that they're talking about, Not just sort of stopping with like here are the three ways that you're going to defeat your depression, Like well, that's not actually real life. Like if there were three steps to defeating depression, it would just, it just wouldn't exist, you know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, it wouldn't. No, and you're absolutely right, and I think that application piece that you're speaking to is one of the most important pieces.
Speaker 2:And look, it doesn't have to lead seeing to seeing a therapist in the world that we live in, not even all therapists are a great resource, right, and so there can be a lot of barriers to that as well, and there's a lot of and there's a lot of things the context to even this part of the conversation that we aren't fully including, because we can't consider everybody's situation all in one breath. Yes, therapy is not the all end, the be all in every situation, but what is the thing that is going to make you apply the things that you are seeing on social media? Are you making that active step, whether it be, like you said, reading upon it more, going to a blog, journaling, finding a course, whatever it may be, self-help stuff that application part is crucial.
Speaker 1:It's not something that you can do consistently in your life, then you know it's just one tiny step in a big bucket of, or a big pool of, the shallow end right.
Speaker 2:Yeah Well, I kind of like the joke that, like therapy is like 70% reminders of all the stuff that we already know.
Speaker 1:It's so true.
Speaker 2:No, like you know, we know a lot of this stuff, but sometimes we just need to be reminded that we have that option or we have that skill or we have that takeaway.
Speaker 1:And there is so much power, and putting it out there to a person who is going to be like yeah, and next week I'm going to hold you accountable to that that thing that you know you need to do, like go ahead and do it, and then next week we can talk about how it goes.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah or didn't go, and that's okay too.
Speaker 1:And then your barriers were, and then that's the, that's the stuff that no social media can cover, it's so true, like capturing that relationship and, you know, the admission of failure, the things that maybe didn't go well, because we don't tend to put those things on social media.
Speaker 2:No, which is the other different lens of why it is a challenge to be on social media, because your vision is not only is this thing supposedly three steps to beat depression, but everyone around me seemingly has this perfect life, with these perfect moments and the perfect insta food, and none.
Speaker 1:nobody's life looks like that it's so tricky because it happens. So like, so subconsciously, right, like I don't go into scrolling and being like I wish my life were like so-and-sos, or I'm sad that I didn't go to the beach this week, right. I like I don't start scrolling and think, feeling that way or thinking that way, right. But then I get off of scrolling and then I'm like dang, I got to do better about like meal prepping. You know, it's like man, if I could just be better at meal prepping, maybe then I could not be overweight. If I weren't overweight, like you know, maybe I would feel better and I wouldn't be thinking quite as many things, um, in my own mind.
Speaker 2:And then maybe like, and then it's just like I'm totally spiraling yep, questioning every part of your being, and it can really start from one little person. It's funny like I uh, even though I'm not majorly present on social media yet one of the posts that I actually did just put up was saying if your routine is stressful, then it's not sustainable, and everything that we see, like these curated things that we find ourselves looking at and aspiring to make for ourselves on social media, are just that they're pictures of perfect that never exists. The real, sustainable way of living your life is messy and it's always adapting, it's always changing, it's always figuring out what didn't work the week before or ditching the thing that's currently not working.
Speaker 1:So true, you know, I've shared this story a couple of times. I'm not sure if I've shared it on the podcast or not, but, um, you know, I like, I, um, I tend to have a little bit of ADHD. Obviously is coming out a little bit. I'm not diagnosed, but I just know I have some things that I get easily distracted and then hyper-focused, and so I have a little bit of that kind of, you know, like just a flavor, not diagnosed, but anyway. So clutter tends to cause me to feel just discomfort, right. Well, I have four kids who don't always pick up everything after themselves, and now we have a dog who has learned to take things out of the basket, like all their toys. He takes all of his toys and he leaves them all over the house, okay, and so there's clutter, kind of. I know my face is the same way as your face is, right now that my dog has now learned to keep clutter all over the floor.
Speaker 1:So, you know, years ago I would be really uptight about like trying to tidy everything up and make sure everything was clean. And, you know, before I went to bed or before people would come over, right, like if a friend were to come over. I would be like we're going to clean up the house and make sure that nobody gets to see this is how we actually live, you know, and we had this maintenance man come. I think we had like an HVAC, you know, heating, cooling kind of issue at our house. And I'll never forget what this man taught me is he walked into my house and he had to step over toys, like literally.
Speaker 1:Like as I was walking him to the house, he was like stepping over my children's toys in the living room and I said I'm so sorry, you know I didn't clean up, but you know. And he said you know what, ma'am? This is what everyone's house looks like. No one cleans for the maintenance man, so I get to see what people's houses actually look like and you don't. How powerful is that? What? It was so brilliant. I thank that man and I have never forgotten that lesson that, like you know well, there's a lot of lessons in, like the invisibility of the maintenance people and how we treat people, and anyway, there's a lot more to unpack there. My mind was already going in that direction.
Speaker 1:You know, there's so much more to unpack there. But the part that, like you know, I'm talking about today was really this lesson that we tend to think oh well, this is what everybody else does. And you know, even for people like you and I, we get to hear so many people's stories that we start to realize like, yeah, you think you're really alone in this, because on social media.
Speaker 1:Everybody presents like we all go on vacation and we all take a picture in our blue and white shirts and we look so cute. But we you and I know because we hear behind the therapy room what happens behind closed doors and and we're here to say like, yeah, not everybody lives the way they post on social media no, I love that message and it's more normal than anybody realizes.
Speaker 2:I think, like if I were still to add on to my joke that 70% of therapy is like just going through the motions and and saying, yeah, like I'm, I already know the stuff and we're reminding ourself of the stuff. Then the rest of it is normalizing. Oh yeah, oh yeah. There's so much normalizing in the therapy room and I think that's probably one of my top things that I normalize as a therapist and even to myself. I have to normalize that, like life is not this one thing and that it can look different for everybody and that feeling this way is okay and normal. And feeling that way is okay and normal and looking this way is okay and normal and all of it can be hard to battle and consume and change and accept. And I think that acceptance piece is kind of circling back around to that application piece.
Speaker 2:You can't reach that acceptance piece until we've started that application piece of everything that we're discussing today.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that is hard because we want to jump straight to that part, right, we don't want to have to go through, oh, actually pausing to think about how, oh, every you know there probably are other people who experienced this and oh, I know in my mind that this isn't what real life is on social media, and I know that there's not three simple steps to defeating depression.
Speaker 1:But, gosh darn, like, there's part of me that wishes there was, you know, and like if I'm a consumer of it, right, there's like I see this and I have this like glimmer of hope. And again, I just think this happens so subconsciously, right, that I'm like not even thinking, oh, there's three simple ways. But when I see it with my eyes, my brain tells me, oh, well, that might be true. And so then it like adds this additional piece of like well, maybe I'm a failure because my life doesn't look like that, or I can't actually do this, or, hey, I don't actually know how to love myself more. Like, coming back to that same question, that is very well intentioned and, you know, a very potentially benign question, yeah, it's difficult to tread all of these different layers that we're talking about.
Speaker 2:And it's I mean especially. I mean, if you and I are even looking at this as like wow, that's a lot, then imagine what the consumer feels like yeah, yeah especially when it comes with this self hair. It's self care stuff and I know that you already alluded to like that being a little bit of a barf moment let me tell you it's a nerve for me too.
Speaker 2:I actually recently had a client who was like. I asked like what is your self-care act going to be? And you know she noted one of those Instagram worthy things like, oh, I'm gonna like take a long bath and I'm going to take myself shopping later. What are you going to do for self-care? And then people get a little bit of a pause. Yes, can that be included with self-care? Absolutely right. But when that's like 99% of how self-care is depicted online, it's like missing a whole lot of what self-care actually includes Literally taking care of yourself. Have you eaten? Have you taken a shower?
Speaker 1:I know, I mean, I literally always say, like barf, emoji after hashtag self-care, because even the whole purpose, you know, we just think it's something that we're supposed to like. Oh, this is something I do for myself and that's self-care. Just because you're doing things for yourself or taking time for yourself or buying something for yourself, is that actually how you feel cared for? Does it actually heal you, does it energize you, does it recharge you in any way? That's what self-care is supposed to be about. It's about healing, recharging. It's about feeling worth like. It's certainly not about getting wrinkly in the bathtub. You know, I mean, but maybe you got to wash yourself, you know, maybe that is a part of it, but I almost said I almost was very inappropriate. I'm glad that I pulled that back, but anyway, you know it doesn't have to be about that. It could be. If that's a, if that's a huge part for you, that might be great. But if you don't leave that bath being like, wow, I feel healed and recharged and I feel better, that's just barf.
Speaker 2:It really is, and I love that for somebody who wants to take the time to do that act for themselves. But have you remembered to eat something?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, have you eaten something? Have you gone to the bathroom without your kids interrupting you? Have you had a moment to take a deep breath, right, have you communicated with your partner about how you aren't feeling well today and you may need support? And making dinner tonight, or picking the kids up from practice, or you know you're feeling lonely? I mean, there's a million ways to take care of yourself, and it doesn't have to include candles and bathtubs, though it does make for a beautiful post on social media.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the way that you just land that one.
Speaker 1:Oh man, I don't know whose bathtub looks like that.
Speaker 2:Anyway, I mean, let's just be real like calcium or something in our water, so our bathtub is like forever orange.
Speaker 1:Yeah that's what most people have. I mean, this isn't real life, you know it's like come on anyway. Okay, so I think we could talk about the the thing, the good and the bad about social media for a while. But in the meantime, how can people learn more about those courses you talked about, learn more about the work you do and follow you on social media to get better things on social media?
Speaker 2:I love that. So, again, I'm not fully launched on social media. I have a baby channel, literally on Instagram, which is my ideal progress, or, at my ideal progress, I don't. Um, that's going to be like little bits and tits of information that we've been talking about, like you know what is anxiety, signs of anxiety, stuff like that, but my major stuff, especially for my, my courses um, for right now, it's best to contact me through my site. None of them are actually publisher downloadable information as of right now, but my site is myidealprogresscom, which you'll be able to find my Maryland-based telehealth therapy, but I also have a little link to my workplace wellness consultations and things like that. The plan is to hopefully have maybe a couple of these things published, but you want them now, the places to reach out to me and then we can talk about how I can deliver them to you.
Speaker 1:That's amazing. Okay, so I will make sure that I link that in the show notes, which is great, and I'm just grateful to have this conversation Because I think you know just any reminders to those processes that happen kind of below the surface, but then also, you know, normalizing or helping people understand the process of therapy and how it impacts us, I just think is great. So thank you so much for being here today. I'm just glad that you said yes to being here.
Speaker 2:No, thank you for having me, and it always feels funny to talk about a topic like social media while being on social media.
Speaker 1:It's so true. What we didn't talk about is like the, the feelings on our side as therapists, right like, and I mean we kind of talked a little bit about it. But you know that I think most of us on this side are trying to like minimize what we're talking to clients minimizing social media intake.
Speaker 1:And then here we are, like follow me social media, but minimize your intake of social media if it makes you feel bad. Such a balance. It's a real balance and a little bit of juxtaposition there, but anyway, okay. So thank you, listener, for being here, and until our next episode, jackie, where we will talk about more really important things in mental health. Stay safe and stay well, everyone. Ciao.
