Things You Learn in Therapy
Things You Learn in Therapy
Ep119: Overcoming Perfectionism to Build Inclusive, Psychologically Safe Environments with Kindall Tyson
Unlock the secrets to creating environments where authenticity thrives, as licensed psychotherapist Kindall Tyson joins us to dissect the concept of psychological safety. Learn why fostering trust is essential across relationships, schools, and workplaces, and how our internal biases and psychological flexibility can significantly influence these spaces. Kindall candidly shares her personal journey, including her return to the U.S. from Beijing, shedding light on the internal work necessary to create safety for oneself and others.
We then navigate the intricacies of establishing psychological safety within teams and organizations. Explore the vital components of support, empathy, and honest communication that Kindall and I discuss, as we confront the challenges of maintaining respect while being truthful. Discover the power of cultural competence and intentionality in enhancing human connections, and understand why continuous efforts are needed to nurture inclusive and curious environments that welcome diverse perspectives.
Our conversation delves into balancing career ambitions with personal wellness, particularly for those who struggle with perfectionism and people-pleasing tendencies. Gain insights into strategies like diffusion and the RAIN technique to approach mistakes compassionately, and consider the role of past experiences in shaping workplace trust. Kindall also offers her expertise on developing culturally responsive courses, urging listeners to seek fulfillment beyond professional settings and to engage in introspective dialogues to identify what truly matters in their lives.
www.bethtrammell.com
Hello listener, welcome back. I'm your host, dr Beth Tramiel, and this is Things you Learn in Therapy and I am so excited. I actually was like Kendall's coming back again. She's here. I'm so happy, you're here today.
Speaker 1:I love getting to interview amazing people on this podcast. I really do, you know. I just feel so honored that great therapists become great friends who get to come on and say hello. So, Kendall, we are here to talk about psychological safety. Before we do that, can you introduce yourself to listeners? Tell us one fun thing about you and you always have a lot of fun things about you.
Speaker 2:Limited to one is always the issue right. So I'm Kendall Tyson, licensed psychotherapist, clinical supervisor, entrepreneur, and I'd say the fun thing about me right now in my life is that I have repatriated back to the US after six years of living freely, independently, in Beijing, china, and I consider myself to be my own case study in practice what you preach.
Speaker 1:You know, isn't that just for all of us right when I am constantly like, yeah, this is not what I would usually tell people to do, and maybe I should like get back in line.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah for sure. It's an interesting phase in my life right now, so one that I welcome. I asked for, and you know how we tell people there's so much on the other side of dot, dot, dot. Yeah, there's so many dots. Right now, I would say fear and uncertainty is the main one, and I know like there's so much more expansiveness on the other side of this. So learning to create safety for my own self.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's already getting good.
Speaker 1:Okay, girl, it's already getting good.
Speaker 1:Well, here's the thing about you, and I think why I am so drawn to just loving having you here is that every, every episode you've done has been just such this like beautiful balance of vulnerability plus expertise, right, and so I'm just always so grateful to be talking about just about anything with you, frankly.
Speaker 1:But I think this issue of psychological safety is one that I know I have tried to teach to groups and workshops or in schools or in organizations, and I think it's tricky because it's a tough concept to really teach, and I know that well, I don't know, I guess I don't know that you would say this, but I find that, particularly in schools, we talk a lot about physical safety, we have lots of rules toward physical safety, we have all of these drills around, how we're going to keep the kids, you know, kind of physically safe and a fire or tornado or active shooter drill or whatever. But when you stop to think about what are the intentional things I'm doing or you know we're doing in an organization or a classroom or a space towards psychological safety, it's crickets, yes.
Speaker 2:Because one.
Speaker 1:I don't understand that as a concept, but then how do I do that? So just let's start unpacking this, kendall.
Speaker 2:I feel like not even I feel I believe it's such an elusive concept, but and it is something that we do in the comfort of trust I would say that psychological safety is synonymous with trust Because you know, as we educate and do these things, we create these environments for clinicians, students, you know people that we care about. People will take risks, people will do amazing things, ask questions, put themselves out there when they trust that they're going to be supported, they're not going to be ridiculed, that they're going to be appreciated for being brave, and all of that is synonymous to trust. Based off the things that you have done, how I've seen you interact with other people, I trust that you are going to still respect me if I put myself out there, make a mistake, grow in doing so, and so that is tantamount to psychological safety, one of the reasons it's more challenging to pin down, as you stated. Like the drills right, we know we have to do fire drills. That's very tangible, we know why, and it's very external. Yeah, psychological safety, I would imagine in the research, kind of alludes to this.
Speaker 2:A lot of that work is internal and it starts with self. Right, I have to be one, have enough psychological flexibility to know like do I accept certain things? Have enough psychological flexibility to know, like do I accept certain things? Do I speak up on certain things? You know, whatever's happening, does it align with my morals and values? But two, it is am I creating a safe space for others? Have I done my own work as far as biases and my understanding of different cultures and what's intersectionality, and am I open to different perspectives? I have to know where I stand on those things and deal with the discomfort when I find that I don't, because we do our own work to create psychologically safe spaces for other people and for ourselves. So it's hard.
Speaker 1:It's hard and I mean, you know, I think about some people that I have encountered, and, frankly, even myself in different moments, right, where I, the way I see myself, is a person who's open and kind and caring or I don't know, fill in the blank, right Like whatever I see as myself.
Speaker 1:But then sometimes I do things that I'm like actually I'm not very open, you know, because I think what they just said is bad. I almost just said a word that I probably am not supposed to say. I'm just like what they just said is like ludicrous, like I would never, ever think that. You know, in the idea of openness, you know, a person wouldn't think that or say that, you know. So I think there's this I could imagine one of the struggles with working on this inside of ourselves first, is this disconnect between who we think we are, or who maybe we want to be, and that which happens in the middle of a stressful moment with other people around, or, you know, just on a Tuesday, when I haven't had enough sleep and I'm kind of grumpy, right Like yeah, I like that, the disconnect between who we see ourselves as, who we desire to be, who we work to be, and who we show up as in these moments right that are triggering that help us be our best selves.
Speaker 2:You know, when we're happy, we probably offer more psychological safety to most people. However, when we find ourselves because we're happy, we probably offer more psychological safety to most people. However, when we find ourselves because we're human, you know people like to think of therapists and clinicians as cyborgs. You behave a certain way all the time and that's absolutely not the case, oh man. But when we find ourselves in our own habit loops of being triggered, triggered and not feeling safe, what are we putting out into the world?
Speaker 2:And if we're in our own little fight or flight response, it's hard to be receptive and aware to what we're giving off if we're not really taking care of ourselves in those moments as well, because, again, we're human, I see it as like a pendulum swing, a constant pendulum swing, and it just depends on how you care for yourself. You know, what state of awareness are you in in this moment? Are you able to support yourself so that you can give to the environment that you are supporting. It's just really intense awareness and what would do I want to say, what would you do, what would I do, you know, in a specific situation? If I know, what I want to put out is what I also here, because, you know, you kind of started by saying psychological safety and trust are, like you know, fully intertwined right.
Speaker 1:We both did this thing with our hands, where we, you know, we like, we like wrapped our hands together, right. But then in my mind I think I saw trust as a dichotomous concept. Right, it's either I trust or I don't. So I'm in a relationship where I trust that person or I don't trust that person. And as you're talking, I'm like you're so right that, like trust and psychological safety, because they're so intertwined, it really does ebb and flow, Right. And so, even though I have this relationship with this person who I would say I trust them and and many times I feel safe with them, there may be moments where that safety, for whatever reason, isn't available.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it makes me think, you know, working in the institutions that we work in or just being in a relationship with people in general, where you have these trusting moments, where there's a foundation of trust. But we know that we often, as humans, we do things that may break that a little, and maybe someone has been forthcoming about how they feel about a certain thing that was said, you know, a behavior that was enacted, or maybe they haven't been, and so that trust is fractured a bit and so that safety, that intention of safety, isn't as strong, Because what I need to feel safe is going to look very different for someone else, and so but if I don't speak, that tantamount to setting boundaries, if I'm not open about what I need to feel, a level of safety in addition to doing my own part, then will there ever be safety for me? And I feel like it's this compounding thing that psychological safety and environments work, family relationship they don't. It doesn't just spring right. It is like a seed that is planted, nurtured and it grows over time, it's pruned and it continues to grow. However, there are very intentional things that people can do that are going to help foster growth or that are going to depress the growth, and a lot of that does mean have we set boundaries? Have we spoken openly? Are we able to speak safely and openly and honestly, without derision? Can I trust that you're going to change behavior if I've made that request of you?
Speaker 2:It's so many things that build off of each other. It is such a circular thing because if I talk about one, then something else comes up, and there's always the intent to create a psychologically safe well, I would hope environment, but that doesn't always mean that's what the impact is going to be and, depending on the relationships that we have with individuals, it can take one thing that makes it difficult for me to trust someone again, and therefore it's psychological safety, this thing that it's a one and done. Yeah, Someone you know has an infraction, or can you rebuild it? And what does that look like? Behavior, wise and over time?
Speaker 1:as far as intentionality goes, Well, I love that you sort of came to this place because that was the other. That was where I was headed next, right that I know in my life I've had this happen and I've talked to other people right when because I have this dichotomous idea around trust or not trust. If someone does something that breaks my trust, I would like to believe that I'm a person who would be like well, I'm open to having relationships, giving people second chances. I don't know whatever it is right, but I think there's this part of me that would be like they're on the no trust list. I think what we're saying is that that is going to happen.
Speaker 1:Yes, this idea of trust is not dichotomous. It's not you either do or you don't of trust is not dichotomous. It's not you either do or you don't. It's, you know, you're talking about this seed, that sort of grows, and we do or say things that either increase that growth or sort of squash that growth. But it's not. It isn't there any longer, and certainly neither of us are promoting, you know, staying in relationships that are abusive, or you know, I don't think that's what we're talking about. I think we're talking about, you know, otherwise fairly intact relationships that are healthy. Even healthy relationships have this ebb and flow of psychological safety.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, we know that if you're in a relationship with people and you don't have challenges, it's probably not the healthiest relationship.
Speaker 1:But I don't like that. Let me just say this. I just like you know it felt easier 20 minutes ago when I was like I can either trust people or not trust people. And it's true Like there is this discomfort and sort of the ambiguity. And you know, maybe this comes to what you were talking about earlier with those dot dot dots. Right, it's like easier when there's less ambiguity because it feels like less work, like it's easier just to cut somebody out of my life because they crossed me than to have that hard conversation about the trust and the safety that is happening between us.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I imagine that it is, or at least in the short term, that it's easier to go with somebody or walk away from a situation that becomes more emotionally taxing. Again, we're not promoting staying in abusive situations, none of that. But again, all healthy, productive relationships because you have are two, or people that are trying to blend lives and understand one another and hopefully be your authentic self. There will be elements of discomfort and sometimes I feel, or I believe, that there's this element of do you trust yourself enough to have that difficult conversation, no matter what the outcome is? If the trust is broken, what is the understanding between the parties involved as it relates to getting I don't even want to say getting back to, but evolving to a new level of trust, now that you have these new elements involved that you've been able to identify, speak about, work through, and so now you're stronger. Right now you know that there is a healthier relationship on the other side of conflict and that that psychological safety can be strengthened. Maybe you also learned that what I thought I needed and wanted because I've been open, I've set boundaries, I've spoken up, I've used my voice, I've advocated it's not necessarily what I need or want at this point and I'm strong enough to walk away from a situation that no longer serves me, thereby creating a safer environment for myself to be healthier when I move into something new.
Speaker 2:It's just so many avenues that you could go and again, I think it's this interplay between hopefully, self-aware people or entities that have made this contract. We are going to be supportive, we are going to be understanding, we're going to dive deep, we're going to have these tough conversations, we're going to be empathetic, we're going to be honest. We may not agree, but we have learned how to fight fairly and support one another as we do this work. That, to me, is psychological safety. I can speak my mind tactfully, I can use my words respectfully, I can be heard, you know, and that love is not going to be withdrawn or that support is not going to be withdrawn, and I'm still going to be a part of this thing that we're building, even if I say something or call out things that aren't beneficial for us as a team or as people.
Speaker 1:Oh, I mean, everything you just said is like its own full day workshop.
Speaker 2:Oh my God, you know what I'm saying Like no, no, no.
Speaker 1:But like I think about teams that I've been involved with and it's like, how do you speak up and be honest? Because I've been with people that are like, well, I'm just being honest, well, actually needing like real communication training, real training on how to listen and show empathy. You know leaders who you know really need training on how to be supportive and what does that mean? You know, I think it's so. Many of those topics are things that I think, because we're therapists, I think we have gotten a little more training though you know it doesn't mean we're great at it all the time, it just means we've gotten a little more training on some of those things. But I think about some teams that could use a whole day workshop on being honest and showing up with empathy.
Speaker 2:I think about teams I've been on, yes, I, you know there's all this research. When you know you get a little polls on social media, it makes a good boss and things and empathy and understanding tends to be at the very top Right, and I just don't. I would appreciate if there were more people like you stated that understood the importance of healthy connection, healthy communication, active listening, empathetic communication and conversation or just learning how to treat people respectfully. But we know that that construct of respectfully looks different for everybody, considering all the baggage and luggage that we all bring to a situation. So it just, it just.
Speaker 2:It seems like this never ending story of work, internal work, organizational work, relationship, work. And when I say work, I don't mean that it has to be tedious, I mean that it is something that's consistently happening, that you're aware of and that you bring attention to when things pop up and you don't let them fester. Pop up and you don't let them fester. You know, as I was doing more research on psychological safety and so I live in Texas and you know there's a huge hit on DEI and all those things cultural responsiveness, and the research is stating that the more culturally responsive and competent and diverse your organization, the more psychological safety work you're going to have to do because you have so many melding of different perspectives and lived experiences. But that is what leads to excellence in work right, able to prune and grow together and get the good ideas out and create an environment of curiosity and ingenuity and inclusivity, which isn't that what we're trying to put out into the world. We're trying to create or help promote healthier global citizens.
Speaker 1:I hope I hope you know you talk about cultural responsivity, right, being someone who understands the impact of culture in every relationship and in light of what we were just talking about, you know, and as we have had this idea of cultural responsiveness in the back of our, in the back of our mind, I've been thinking and I want to hear your take on this Like I sort of see I don't know what else to call it but just like regular human to human responsiveness and like cultural responsiveness is like an advanced skill on top of that, right, where it's like hey, just training people on how to be better human-to-human connectors, with all the things we were talking about, like showing support and empathy and listening and being able to connect with people, show respect, understand respect, trust, psychological safety, and then cultural responsiveness is like a step up. I don't know, would you agree with that, or would you say they are kind of all one in the same or intertwined?
Speaker 2:I believe there's an element of being intertwined. You know, taking an intersectional approach, you really can't extrapolate any of it right. The world is so global and I also believe that cultural responsiveness is more intentionality. Yeah, okay, initially or from the outset.
Speaker 2:If you want to create, if you want to be a more culturally responsive individual, that is an internal framework from the very beginning, working knowledge and openness to who you are as a person culturally. You know what are the attitudes and beliefs that have been passed down to you that bring you to this point, that either help or hinder your ability to connect, to empathize, communicate, listen to understand, accept. You know other people and there's an openness and willingness to engage in that work, especially when it's uncomfortable, because it often is when you are synthesizing information. That kind of it contradicts what maybe you've learned or your lived experience, but it doesn't make it any less real. So, yes, and I think again, culture being culturally responsive and competent, it's part of the intersectional approach and it's like a higher level of awareness and intentionality as it relates to relationship building and connecting with other humans.
Speaker 1:Okay, so we've talked about this idea of. I think you said the words like intense awareness, or maybe you I'll have to go back and listen to see if that's intentional.
Speaker 1:I know you said intentional, right, so you've you've alluded to like this, like it really is important that we're aware, yeah, and obviously this idea of intentionality. So I think about folks who are listening who are like, yes, I want to be intensely aware, or, you know, I want to be very aware of my own stuff, of the way I interact with the world, the way I understand trust, how I create safety in relationships, blah, blah, that sort of thing, and I also want to be really intentional. And then I think about those of us who might be perfectionists. I know, I know, I know, right. So I think about the heaviness of that task, right, like I think about folks who might get lost in, and I don't think that that's the message, I don't think that's what we're trying to say.
Speaker 1:No, no, and it should cause you to pause, though, right, like, I think there's, I think it's both, I think it's both. It shouldn't be so heavy that the people pleasers or perfectionists of us are like, oh my gosh, I've got to be really aware. And how did? Why did I just think that? Or why did I just say that? Or did they just think this? Because I said that, and how am I? You know, I want to be culturally responsive and get it right. I want to get it right and it should cause us to pause a little. I don't know what are your thoughts there.
Speaker 2:I'm so glad that you said that, because we know that there's an element, even like to myself, of perfection is the enemy of the good. I don't think that there's a way to be perfect in this level of awareness, because I think that it again can lead to being really rigid and lack of authenticity. Yeah, and then I wonder who is it for? Because if it's informative, then it's not beneficial to you or anyone else. Yet again, if we are, so for those perfectionists, for those people pleasers, it's not for anyone else. It is for you to grow as a person so that you can better connect and be open to the lived experiences. And this I don't like to say the melting pot, because to me that means that I lose a part of myself to create a whole. So I look at it more as like the beautiful salad where I get to, where everyone gets to continue to live and live in their experience, what makes them great. But and our own individual experiences create this new and beautiful thing. So, for those who may overthink about it, pause, use your diffusion strategies and when you recognize that you are entrenching yourself, that you are engaging in the rigid thinking, the fortune telling, all those cognitive distortions, remind yourself that this isn't what it's necessarily about. You have a curiosity about who you are as an individual and how you relate to others, and I think that's the point is because you have a desire to actualize and become the best version of yourself on a daily basis. That does mean you'll make mistakes. Respond to those mistakes right.
Speaker 2:Do you withdraw or do you pause and check yourself in a compassionate manner? You know, utilize your RAIN technique. You know where is this feeling coming from. Investigate. You know, utilize your RAIN technique. You know where is this feeling coming from. Investigate you know with compassion and then you move forward. It's not for you to shame yourself. You know this level of thinking, or I can't even say thinking. I think it's just being honestly because we are culturally responsive. It's just in these newer environments maybe, where these topics and thoughts and elements haven't been introduced, there has to be more intentionality, because you are introducing people that may not have historically worked together and the intention in my mind is to create a psychologically safe space. So you do specific things to bring that about. But it's a. It's a, it's a pendulum. You swing back and forth, you get it right. Maybe you don't. You repair, you build and you connect.
Speaker 1:All right, so let's talk about the workplace place. Okay.
Speaker 1:So okay, so this issue of trust, I think is very personal to every one of us.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and you know I've done, I did a talk once over zoom, which was kind of interesting, about trust in the workplace, which you know alludes to this issue of psychological safety workplace, which you know alludes to this issue of psychological safety, right, and one of the things that I sort of argued is that the challenge with trust in the workplace is that we don't necessarily think about how we trust people right, and so the ways that we trust people Right, and so the ways that we trust people in our living room, maybe the same way we think we should trust people in the break room Right, and that may or may not be true for you.
Speaker 1:And so how do we kind of learn these things about ourselves or have expectations around trust in the workplace when you know, maybe we haven't had the best experiences with trust in the workplace? Maybe we had a supervisor who totally burned us, or we had a coworker who, you know, totally went behind our backs and said all kinds of crazy stuff about us, and so you know, I think we all have experiences in the workplace with trust. How do we recognize that and how do we move forward. What do we do about that?
Speaker 2:I would say with you bringing that up I've actually experienced both of those and many that everyone comes with their own level of work trauma. If we're speaking specifically to the workplace, it's really identifying one. Hopefully you're in a place that your skills are being utilized and that you feel is in alignment with your values and like the mission for your life, so you feel like work is meaningful and beneficial. That takes away some of the stress of the job, but the stress will always be there. And as it relates to trust, I think it's meaningful and beneficial. That takes away some of the stress of the job, but the stress will always be there. And as it relates to trust, I think it's also identifying what is it that you need to be in a safe and trusting environment, and recognizing that what you need at work will be very different from what you need at home, because those needs are not the same. Right, the level of love and support and connection at home is not going to be what hopefully not going to be. Oh, I don't know what you seek at work. What do I need from this place? I need, I need subsistence. I need to be paid fairly right. I need to be respected. You know I need to be included, I need to know that I belong Like. That sense of belonging is really important. I need to know that my work is valued, that I'm supported and mentored. So, really identifying what are the needs that you want met in this place so that I hope that you have a foundation of okay, I'm trusting that what I need basically is gonna be met here. And when it comes to, if trust is broken, do I have a support system in this place where I can go and have conversations with my higher ups or with colleagues that have demonstrated not just to me but through interacting with other people, that they empathize, they listen, they're respectful, that we can have difficult conversations and that you know I won't there won't be any reprisal if something's brought up that we may not agree on.
Speaker 2:I also believe that it's understanding if you feel like you're in an abusive kind of situation at work. What are your options? Right, you know that every situation isn't going to lead to you staying in a place that's going to be beneficial. What are the options that you have? You know what's. What's the recourse. Are you seeking different employment? Do you need to have conversations with different people in the workplace HR colleagues. Get a therapist. I'm always going to recommend that people get a therapist, you know, to help them work through things that they experience and you don't. This is one of the things I have to speak about all the time. You don't have to have a problem to work with a licensed professional. It could essentially be working through what you need at work, right, and how do you process different situations that you find yourself in.
Speaker 2:I also feel like just taking an account of how is work benefiting your life. Do you find yourself be burnt out? Are you doing too much? Are you doing more than you should? Are you not doing enough? Could you do more? And aligning things to this is what I need in my life right now. This is what I'm getting, you know. Is this an environment that I feel like I can be a level of authentic? I don't necessarily as a black woman in the workplace. I don't think that I've ever been able to be fully authentic in the spaces that I've worked in. That doesn't mean that I'm not being authentic, because I am, but I don't think I can show up as my full, complete self, because to me, that's not safe. So, yeah, I'm thinking about what version of you are you able to bring to this space and feel accepted and respected? And if that's not happening, what conversations can be had to either further that or remedy that or help solve whatever challenges might be present? I hope I answered the question. I feel like I did and maybe not.
Speaker 1:No, you definitely did. And then I wrote down a bunch of stuff and I'm like, oh, it is so good. Okay, so I want to go back to what do I need from this place? You know, I think about some spaces that people might be in where they're like I need it to be a paycheck. I don't think that my supervisor I love the word you use demonstrated like that. They have demonstrated the safety that would suggest to you that you can have this conversation with them and something will get better. Because I think we're like, well, I, or some people, advise employees to have conversations with HR, have conversation with your supervisor, and that is not always the safe answer, you know.
Speaker 1:And so then I think about those folks who might be like, yeah, you know, to what you said, like not being able to show up with your full level of authenticity and then being able to grieve that I'm not going to get out of this place, all of the things that I hoped my workplace would be, but it is giving me a paycheck right now. Is there a place I don't know? I mean, I'm like, as I'm saying all these things out loud, it's like, well, yeah, you're never going to feel fulfilled, you're going to feel tired and burned out. Probably. If that is the reality for you, right? I mean, I don't know, as I'm talking, you're nodding. Tell me what you're thinking.
Speaker 2:I think the fulfillment is again based off what. What need am I getting met in this particular work that I'm doing? You know, being a counselor is fulfilling. When you know, in the past work that I've done this past year, I'm helping to save, you know, children's lives. They're not dying by suicide. That is very fulfilling for me. And it is tiring, it is taxing, it is emotionally laden, it is all those things. But my need to help other people see themselves, love themselves, have you know, equitable support is being met and it is superseded by the fact that someone trusts me enough to come and share things that are really deep and intense and they know that they have help there, Right this this idea of fulfillment when the things you're getting out of that place it may not be a safe, a psychologically safe place.
Speaker 1:Right, right, right. Okay, now go.
Speaker 2:Okay, so this is literally my last job. I love most of the people that I work with, so the community aspect that need was being fulfilled to a degree. Growing professionally, that need was definitely being fulfilled. Knowing that I belong, not so much right.
Speaker 2:And feeling safe not so much, and I think this has come up in other conversations that we had. When other ex parte conversations are being had that you hear about as far as you as a person not your professional work and things that you do really well that are external for everybody to see, and things that you do really well that are external for everybody to see, and things that you can't control are being spoken about. That then makes it feel unsafe for me. So then we withdraw into our shells and so, while we still might be getting these other needs fulfilled I'm getting paid, my insurance is covered, I have somewhere to stay, I do have friends here, I'm growing professionally I don't feel safe most of the time that I'm in this space. So what do I do now? Yeah, right, you have these binaries that you now have to consider, like they all exist at the same time. So do I look at the fact that most of the things I need are being fulfilled? I'm living a great life, you get to travel.
Speaker 2:Yet when I come into this space, I feel like I'm having many panic attacks, my heart's palpitating, I'm overthinking. You know what are they thinking? I don't feel safe to show up in my bright clothes, with my big smile, programming and doing all these things because there's a fear there, there's trauma there. You know and I'll just speak personally like I've had to have conversations with my bosses about things that were being said or ways that I was being treated that stem from who I am as a person that I can't control, not from the work that I'm doing and people can only do so much because you can't legislate the hearts of folks and so there was a decision made.
Speaker 2:Hence why I have repatriated back to the United States, where there's so many things that I'm being fulfilled in. I'm growing internationally, I'm growing professionally, I'm connecting with great people, I'm helping save lives, I am doing the things that make me feel professionally fed. Yet what I also need that connection, that respect, that feeling of safety at work those needs are not being met, and in this phase of my life, those needs supersede the other things. So there has to be a point where you make a decision what weighs more for me at this phase of my life? So I think all of that can exist. You just have to have some difficult conversations with yourself.
Speaker 1:Thank you for sharing that. I mean, this is what I talked about earlier, why I love having you here, but it's it's so good and true that, like what you're saying, is, sometimes you can sort of concede some parts of things and then a year from now, a month from now, those priorities may shift and then it may not be working anymore.
Speaker 2:You know I had.
Speaker 1:I don't know if this was like a quote or you know, some person told me I'm sure you've heard this or people have heard it. You know, like not any one person can be everything to you, like your spouse, your partner, your boss, right, Like you can't expect them to fill every need. It's just not real life. And so I think about that from the work standpoint too. Right, that your job can't fulfill every need you have. And so I love this. You know this challenge that you have for us to say, like you have to have some hard conversations with yourself or with a therapist, like you suggested earlier. Like get a therapist who can walk through these conversations with you to say, like what is it that matters to me right now and what do I actually need?
Speaker 2:Yeah, that was. That was a hard lesson to realize. Like I can always make money, I can probably make more money. You know, working for myself with less headache, less burnout, different just different stressors and stresses aren't always bad.
Speaker 2:But realizing that what I need in this moment, in this time, right now I will not be able to get in this space is a huge realization, and I think it's also helping people if they're open to doing that exploratory work. You know, maybe, as you're finding that, okay, certain aspects of needs that I have aren't met here. Maybe I can find hobbies right, maybe I can expand my network and connect with different people, maybe I can see what the places that I live in have to offer that will fulfill some of the needs that I noticed aren't being met at work, in which cases is probably going to be the case because, again, work cannot be everything. There are other elements of your life that need to be fed in order to blossom. So it's a breeding ground for you to be able to grow in so many other areas of your life, which may then take away some of the stress of work, because you're expecting it to be all encompassing and it's not supposed to be so diversify.
Speaker 1:Oh my gosh, I just want to talk about everything else longer. I just want to, like, I want to ask the other 12 questions that I have here, but we're going to save that for the next time. So, okay, kendall, you always have so many things brewing, so tell people how they can find you and the things that you have coming up.
Speaker 2:Yay, yes, well, you can visit me on my website that I am revamping right now. At aspirecounselingwellcom, you can follow me on Instagram at aspire underscore counseling. Well, I'm on LinkedIn at Aspire underscore Counseling. Well, I'm on LinkedIn as well. Kendall Tyson have my YouTube channel, aspire Counseling. Well, and right now I'm cooking up some culturally responsive courses for the International School Counseling Association. I am open to speaking at schools, helping with course creation and supervision. I'm a licensed, I'm a clinical supervisor, so I'm helping to grow the next generation of culture responsive counselors. Yeah, there's so much. I have some affirmation cards coming out soon. So as soon as I figure out how to get it done, I got to slow down and finish, start, finish, start, finish. But yes, please follow the journey, join along, subscribe, help us. I'm just grateful for the work, all the ideas you have all the things you're putting out.
Speaker 1:I want to promote them as as much as I can, because just your presence in the world matters so much, and I'm just so grateful.
Speaker 2:I'm grateful too. I can't remember how we connected, but I'm so glad that we did.
Speaker 1:It's like you know, every time we're always like gosh well, until we have your retreat and we can meet in Portugal, or hopefully before that, you know it would be amazing. All right, listener. Thank you for being here. Check out Kendall and follow her on social. Until next time, stay well.
