Things You Learn in Therapy
Things You Learn in Therapy
DEBRIEF: Megan's episode - Building Emotional Resilience and Exploring the Science of Happiness
Join my research assistant, Sarah Leis, and I as we debrief Megan's episode from last week!
We explore the multifaceted nature of trauma and the crucial role of compassion and curiosity in understanding each individual's unique emotional landscape. Megan shares her wisdom on how even family members can experience the same event differently, urging us to acknowledge and honor these distinct perceptions. It's a heartfelt discussion that underscores the importance of validating personal experiences without stigma, fostering a more supportive environment for mental health.
Breaking away from conventional formats, we delve into the subjective nature of happiness and the complexities of defining it. Through our collaborative journey, we highlight the joy of learning and personal growth, celebrating the refreshing educational experiences we've crafted. This episode is a testament to our enthusiasm for understanding happiness and the profound impacts of redefining how it's taught, promising an engaging dialogue that will leave you contemplating the diverse paths to joy.
www.bethtrammell.com
Hey listener, welcome back. This is just a maternal mental health and it's actually really interesting because when I get to interview these guests from all over the world, you know, I start to like get to know therapists who are in similar spheres. And so actually two weeks ago we had posted the episode on maternal rage with Nicole McNellis, and she's also really interested in women's mental health, and so she was talking and they were actually going to the same conference that Nicole was talking about, and so I connected them and I emailed them both and I said I just love both of you and I think both of you should know that you're both going to be at the same conference and they were able to get together. Like this is the beauty of just gosh being able to do this work. I'm so grateful. So, anyway, random story, but Megan came to talk more about trauma and emotion and specifically, emotional resilience. So, sarah, introduce yourself for anybody who hasn't heard. You come, do a debrief episode yet. And, yeah, let's just kick it off. What's, what did you think about, megan?
Speaker 2:Okay, hey, listener, it's Sarah again, I'm a senior psychology major at IU East and I'm Dr Tramiel's research assistant. So again I thought Megan was amazing and like right off the bat she like starts with her Lego versus Duplo illustration, which is just such a perfect illustration for like the big traumas and the micro traumas and how they build up and how they work together to like build a wall I guess you know a wall of trauma Legos.
Speaker 1:It's so true, you know, and I, you know, in the episode I remember her like holding it up and actually she took a screenshot and so that was what she had posted on social media was. You know she's holding her little Legos? And you know I tend to use a lot of visuals as a psychologist too, and so I think you know I'm biased toward that because I'm a kind of visual learner in that way in some senses, and so when she was holding it up, it was like that's so good, and I do think there's this continued. I think there's this continued push toward getting folks to understand the importance of trauma. But then I think there's still all this yuck around stigma and trauma.
Speaker 1:Again, I think that's getting better, but I think sometimes it's hard for people to admit or understand or sort of connect with trauma, or you know they have a sort of this oh well, other people have it harder than me, and so my big T or little T, trauma doesn't matter, and so I love that she's able to sort of break down trauma into a way that is, um, just so connecting, that is just so connecting. Right, and I hear her through this lens of compassion. That also isn't like. Well, you know trauma is everybody and you know like it's really such a smart educational, like a real psychoeducational way of approaching the topic the topic.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's just so relatable and really makes you think about your, your own life and experiences, you know, and cause. I even found myself thinking about mine as as she was talking. So, yeah, it was just really, it was really powerful, yeah, and I think it's.
Speaker 1:It was important. You know she was sort of talking about all these kind of everyday experiences and how it's like not everything is traumatic and not everybody who experiences trauma develops PTSD. Small things to us that matter a lot to people, and so I loved her example of, you know, sort of like the soccer game, where it's like, yeah, you know, for some people that might matter a lot and for other people it's like it doesn't matter at all. But that's not the point. The point is not my interpretation of whether it's traumatic or it's not. The point is that person's sort of lived experience and how it relates to their other lived experiences and whether it becomes something that we might call trauma.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I love how she framed it from like a first person point of view. From the trauma's experience perspective, that's not right.
Speaker 1:You know what I mean yeah, I think, I think, yeah, I get what you're saying, where it's like every person experiences everything differently yeah, it's just everyone's different, like no two people are going to experience the same situation exactly the same way and it's.
Speaker 1:You know there are some families who experience, you know, maybe a big T trauma, and you know we both have a bunch of kids and um, so it's like different kids will experience different things, different ways.
Speaker 1:So, you know, my um experience are with one kid and they might experience it totally different than their brother or sister, and so I think it's just such a good reminder that, um, you know, anytime anybody in our lives experiences something that may or may not be considered trauma from them, coming from this place of curiosity instead of judgment, right, like and and I'm saying this for me as much as anybody else, sarah, cause I am quick to judge and you know I sometimes I'm like it's kind of an occupational hazard and it's kind of just me like not being like aware of just pausing to be like wow, like that was really judgy, to be like well, you know, why is that happening, or why are they doing that, or why is that happening?
Speaker 1:Like my, my search for meaning and understanding can sometimes be really judgmental, and so I think, as I make interpretations through my bias of how other people are experiencing the world, I really am fighting to stay in that place of curiosity instead of just well, that's dumb or wrong, you know, and instead being like hey, I wonder what's happening with that person, and this situation, gosh, what a better place to come from, you know, like?
Speaker 2:Yeah, if, if we could always all be in that, that place, that would be amazing. But I think that your experience of coming at a situation through a lens of maybe closer to judgment is just, it's very relatable and very kind of universal. So it's, it's a good reminder for all of us, for sure.
Speaker 1:It's hard, you know it is hard. And if I can pause, you know, just give myself a pause to allow my you know, my frontal lobe to be like hey, hey, I'm your frontal lobe. To be like hey, hey, I'm your frontal lobe.
Speaker 2:Just pause all your sass, okay, yeah, yeah, yeah not so much of it will come out that way, that's right you know, just a little bit of zipping, it would probably go a long way.
Speaker 2:So let's see what else was there in this episode. Oh, the, the idea of like experiencing two emotions at the same time. That was such an important part for me. That's something that I've done a lot of work just personally to embrace, because, um, you know, so often we we want the joy without, without any of the bad stuff, you know, we just want pure, unadulterated joy. That's just not really how life works, is it?
Speaker 1:Oh it's so good, this part was so good. I mean, I remember being like it's so good. And you know, I think we prime people for this, like the opposite of this, to be like regular life. You know, I think you know I'd say like, hey, Sarah, how you feeling today? And if you say one thing, then I'm like okay, you know, we're just moving on. We don't say like, okay, but what else are you feeling? You know, and in fact I spend so much time in every workshop and every like course that I teach talking about the feelings wheel. Search it up, friend. If you have never heard me talk about the feelings wheel, search it up. It's linked in the blog post. I love it, I love it.
Speaker 1:So I mean, we just don't have the emotional vocabulary. We don't use a whole bunch of words to explain our inner experience, and some of that's because we're not taught to do that. Some of that is we're not reinforced to do that. Right, people aren't like oh, yeah, and tell me more about your embarrassment and tell me more about your isolation. You know, it's like. People are like, oh, you're embarrassed, oh, don't be embarrassed, it's fine.
Speaker 1:We just like want to shut down every emotion, and so I love the reminder that two things we can feel many things and I guess the other thing that I kind of thought about later and maybe didn't spend as much time is, I think, what happens to like many people that I've encountered, and even in my own life have had moments where I'm like, if I have too many different emotions at once that I can't label or I can't identify, then I'm like, oh, I don't know what's happening. I get like frustrated with myself or I just sort of like I don't really know. I feel overwhelmed or stuck or something where I'm like it's almost like I've taught myself that I can just like only tolerate one thing at a time. That's just not real life. I mean, that's what you're saying. It's like this is just not real life.
Speaker 2:It's just not. I mean the, the good comes with the bad, and, like, sadness and happiness aren't, aren't opposites to be experienced separately. They're, they're partners, um, that, that, um, I don't know the. Is it okay to say that the sad times make the happy times even better?
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I mean I think that that is, um, you know part of why I just love that. We also brought up Inside Out too and still actually love watching that movie, you know, with my kids also. I just think it does such a really good job. And I think the first one was brilliant also to talk about some of the things that happen, because it's true, like all of these things are working inside of us and the more we just ignore them, just pretend they don't exist, like they just go a little bit ignored eventually I had to laugh when you talked about where anxiety literally bottles up all the other emotions.
Speaker 2:We're just going to put them over here, we're not going to think about them and just to see that like perfect visualization of something we all try to do from time to time was just perfect.
Speaker 1:And how they were. Like this doesn't fit. I just hate it.
Speaker 1:No, you know it's like it's so true Like there was so much about that movie that I still come back to and I I talked with my teenagers about where I'm like, yeah, you know how they like revved up the emotion. You know, like there was one part where they were like we're revving this anger all the way up and that's really, you know, kind of the part of what happens during puberty, for, you know, most kids just that's just part of typical development and so, yeah, I just I love that and I love that we were able to kind of talk about that during this episode too.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they could keep making those inside outs all the way up through and I'd be happy.
Speaker 1:I know it is so clever to you know. I wonder if we'll get a chance to see her as she moves into emerging adulthood. That would be so interesting.
Speaker 2:It would, it would I. Just, I think it's really fascinating and they've got like some like professionals writing this stuff because there's just so much good stuff in there.
Speaker 1:They had to consult with people who were experts in development. Yeah, they had to, because they used like certain terms and certain things, like it was just very clear that they had some people who were helping them make sure that it was as close to accurate as possible.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I loved it.
Speaker 1:I did.
Speaker 2:Let's see closing out this episode. Oh, you guys talked about happiness and like our search and our drive for happiness, and you mentioned your class. I was actually in that class the very first semester. It was offered Amazing class. If anyone listening is going to IU East, I highly recommend what was it called? It's called the-.
Speaker 1:The Psychology of Happiness.
Speaker 2:Psychology of Happiness. Yeah, yeah, and happiness looks different at different times in our lives, and one of the biggest things I I took from that class is one thing that you touched on is how one bad day doesn't equal a bad life. You know, so often we feel that it does and like, and our happiness isn't based so much on external circumstances of what happens to us, but it's our internal reality of how we react to the external circumstances. But, yeah, really great class and great, great conversation about happiness and what it, what it means for us.
Speaker 1:Well, thank you for saying that. That was very kind. I love that you um got some good stuff out of the class. It was something that we, um I co-created with a colleague of mine, dr Amanda Cray hey, hi, amanda, if you're listening Um, I um it was just such, a, um, kind of a refreshing course.
Speaker 1:We really flipped the script on how we did a lot of things in creating the course, where we kind of moved away from you know, read and quiz and discussion board for an online class, and so we were grateful to have folks who came through and people who talk about it and loved it and feel like they got something out of it. It was great. But you're right, I mean so much of even teaching that course. We talk about this kind of in the episode. It's like everybody experiences happiness in such a different way and you and I could live a totally parallel life, have this, you know really similar paths, and from an occupational standpoint or from a relational standpoint or from a financial standpoint, and it could be very different in how we interpret our level of happiness. It's just so subjective and so it was really just fun and kind of complicated sometimes to explain the science of happiness when we all kind of have our own idea of how we do or don't get there.
Speaker 2:Absolutely yeah. I think one of the first assignments was we were just kind of defining happiness and it seemed so simple in the beginning and then, the more you look into it, the more you peel back from happiness, the more there is down there and you're just like, oh wow, nevermind, yeah, let's, let's close that back up.
Speaker 1:It's like when you have all the emotions you know like nevermind, I just don't want to do that right now. That's hysterical. Well, look, sarah, this was fun again. I'm so glad that you continue to keep doing this. You're, you're getting like so much more comfortable. I know, the first time you were just a little bit like I don't know, I've never done this, but you're just a natural.
Speaker 2:Well, thank you. I love podcasts, so this is really cool to see that this is something that I can do.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you're really great, you're very natural at it and I think listeners can hear your excitement and how you're like really digging into it. And you know, this is for me like how I approach learning. You know, I'm like, oh, I love it and I want to think about it and I want to apply it to what I know and I want to shift things around in my brain to apply in a different way, and so I'm I'm just loving seeing this part of you.
Speaker 2:Well, I'm loving the experience, so thank you for the opportunity no-transcript.
