Things You Learn in Therapy
Things You Learn in Therapy
DEBRIEF Episode: Kaya Spicer
Listen in as we debrief the episode from Kaya Spicer!
We're also excited to welcome back Kaya, who brings a refreshing approach to discussing sexual health. With her candidness, Kaya transforms what is often a hushed topic into an easy, dinner-table conversation. For many of us who grew up in environments where such discussions were sparse, Kaya's openness is both enlightening and comforting. This episode promises a thoughtful exploration of how openly discussing sexual health can foster understanding and ease, paving the way for a more informed approach to the topic.
www.bethtrammell.com
Hello listener, welcome back. We are a little behind. I feel like I always start this way, where I get in my mind and I'm going to do all these cool things and then all these things come up. So here we are again. We are a little behind in terms of doing our debriefs, but we are going to debrief again.
Speaker 1:I am Dr Beth Tramiel, I'm the host here of Things you Learn in Therapy and I'm here with my student. Again. We are coming to the end of our time together, which makes me kind of sad. The end of our time together, which makes me kind of sad. You've been such a great help in not just these debrief episodes, but in lots of other ways. So I'm grateful and I am not going to be sad. I'm going to be happy about the time I get to spend with you in the next little bit of time here. So before we start talking about sex and sexual health, which is going to be a really interesting conversation, tell us a little bit about you. And I don't know, do you have one fun thing? Are we doing that every time? You want to do it again?
Speaker 2:Yeah, let's see. So I am Sarah. I am Dr Trammell's undergrad research assistant this semester. I am also sad that it's ending. I wish I had the bandwidth next semester to take another three credits, but it's just not going to work out because I'm graduating and I've got to fit in the rest of those classes.
Speaker 2:But let's see one fun thing. Well, I live in Seattle. I think I talked about that before and I'll tell you about my favorite place in Seattle. It's the Ballard Locks. Everyone who comes to visit I take them there. Some people love it, Some people hate it. They're like this is just a boat elevator, but it's so relaxing to sit and watch the boat. So picture the Panama Canal, only much, much smaller. Because the way Seattle is situated I should have started with this. The way Seattle is situated is there should have started with this. The way Seattle is situated is there's a couple different lakes within Seattle and then the Puget Sound on the western side. The Puget Sound is lower than the freshwater lakes, so they created this system of locks that the water level raises and lowers, and I just love going over there and watching the boats go up and down.
Speaker 1:So you literally are just standing on the ground and you're just watching the water go up and down so the boats can go from one body of water to the next. Yes, at first I thought, oh, you're in a boat and it goes up and down. No, you're just watching and it's very satisfying it is.
Speaker 2:It is and there's a salmon ladder where the salmon go through, because when they built the dam and the locks, it blocked the salmon, so they build a ladder for them to go through and you can watch that and I just think it's really relaxing to sit there and watch the boats.
Speaker 1:I love that. You love it.
Speaker 2:I hope for anyone listening. I'm sorry if that wasn't clear. What's going on?
Speaker 1:I love that you shared that. I think that people who maybe don't live in Seattle and they go to visit now they have a place in mind that they can do and go and you know what.
Speaker 2:It's free. There's not a lot of free things to do on vacation.
Speaker 1:I am always up for free fun. I love this recommendation and if I am in Seattle, it is on my bucket list to go to Seattle and I just haven't been able to get there.
Speaker 2:Come, and you got to go to Pike Place too.
Speaker 1:Okay, great. Two things now, Okay, great. Okay, so this episode with Kaya. So I loved getting to interview Kaya. She has come on the podcast before. I was sort of giggling a little bit because I did not, and I think Kaya also has said before that she didn't grow up in an atmosphere where talking about sexual health was kind of a normal thing and I certainly didn't grow up in a space where, you know, we had open conversations around sexual health, and so I think that, for me, was one of the first things was how kind of easy and kind of normal she made sexual health sound. She's just talking about it like it's talking about what we're making for dinner. It's like sexual health and sexual intimacy and creating an erotic map was just all, just another normal day.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. I grew up in the same kind of environment and I don't know it was so encouraging for me, I guess, to hear her speaking that way because that's like what I would love to move towards for myself and seeing that she grew up in an atmosphere where it wasn't really talked about but she learned, I mean that was really encouraging to me.
Speaker 1:I love that you bring that up, because I think you're right. It is something that we can learn to grow and our comfort level with, but that doesn't happen if we don't actually talk about it. You know, that's why I love this episode and even this conversation that you and I get to have. So what else stood out to you with Kaya?
Speaker 2:Um, but just right from the beginning she brought up sexual health in the same like manner as like physical, mental and spiritual health, and we don't think of it that way. We think of sex as this like extracurricular part of our lives, that if it's we have time and it's going great great. But if it isn't necessarily really a thing in your life, you just leave it off the list of things in your life and it's not really thought about.
Speaker 1:You know, I originally thought about this episode for therapists who I train, right. So therapists in training or supervisees of mine who have kind of this discomfort with bringing it up in therapy.
Speaker 2:You know, I just really appreciate to your point how she even just starts the conversation from that same lens as a place of saying, hey, this is all a part of health exactly, yeah, and it really is, and we just, we just don't see it that way because it's so not talked about, and you guys talked about, like, bringing this conversation more into um, I don't know, the forefront of just our conversations that we have with others.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, I loved her question Like who am I as a sexual person?
Speaker 2:Yes, that's the next thing that I had on here. Absolutely how she talked about kind of mapping it out and knowing who we are and then teaching it to our partner Mind blowing.
Speaker 1:Like I know from experiences and talking to people that that two part process I think we can miss both parts of the process. You know, like the part where we pause to be like who am I as a sexual person? What is, you know? She brought up, I wrote down and I wrote it down again, like this idea of an erotic map. What is the narrative that I have in mind about all things related to my sexual health, my relationship with my partner, or my relationship with my long-term or short-term partner, and my body, like relating to my body, and I don't know that we pause to like spend enough time digging into that question, much less than sharing that with our partners.
Speaker 2:I know that I had to pause and think. You know, I've never asked that question about myself. Like who am I as a sexual person, let alone taking the time to share that with a partner.
Speaker 1:And I think about how powerful it would be.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the possibilities there. You know, I didn't like I hadn't even gotten there yet, but you're right. Sorry, you just kind of like my brain broke for a second, but yeah.
Speaker 1:I love that and it's so. I mean, I just love this sort of like candid conversation around these things, because I think, you know, I, I think we preach I don't even know why my brain is going here, but I'm like thinking about, like, premarital counseling. I'm not even sure if that's still a thing, but do people still do premarital counseling and how much of that is devoted to sexual health, how much of any kind of training, and whether that's counseling like you know, voluntary counseling that a couple does. When are couples instructed to have this conversation?
Speaker 2:I don't think they are. I know in my personal experience and I'll go ahead and speak to what my husband and I did when we were getting married. The pastor who was going to marry us wanted to talk to us beforehand and the only thing that was brought up in regards to sex was what are your plans if there's a period in your relationship where you can't have sex, like, say, post-childbirth or different things like that? That was the only thing that was ever brought up, and I know from speaking with others that this what happens if you can't have sex kind of conversation with a lot of faith leaders can also be used for like in not as good ways to you know, if you know what I'm saying there. So that's really the only exposure that I think a lot of couples are getting to that question.
Speaker 1:And certainly not. What is the narrative I have in my mind around myself as a sexual being and how important it is to my relationship.
Speaker 2:Never, I don't. I mean, oh, I guess I can't say never, I can only speak to my experience.
Speaker 1:But yeah, but it seems like outside of doing therapy as a couple. And then I think about, like, when couples seek counseling, it's not usually like like we don't usually have the freedom, right. So I'm thinking as a therapist. Right, if a therapist or if a client comes to see me and they want marriage counseling, it's not usually during a place where we kind of have the luxury of talking about what your narrative around sex is. It's more like how are we gonna survive this next conflict that we're having and move away or move toward separation or divorce? It just feels like couples aren't seeking counseling to even talk through these things as often as maybe we should.
Speaker 2:No, I agree. I agree. It does bring up a lot, of, a lot of concerns surrounding just the when people don't talk about all the aspects that are going to come up.
Speaker 1:I know, and so I'm grateful for her expertise as a board certified sex therapist to be like hey, if you want to, you know, talk about these things with your partner. She may really be your right person.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, and I just I want to recommend to everyone listening. If you never listened to Kaya's first episode, you got to go back and listen to Kaya's first episode, because it's the perfect part one to the conversation in episode 118.
Speaker 1:I think even at the very beginning of this episode I mentioned something like hey, the last time we were here talking about the power of play, and pleasure and finding pleasure in your life, and then it clearly ties know, clearly ties in to sexual health too, and she was, you know, obviously in agreement to that. But I think what I appreciate about her is that she takes these taboo topics and is like yeah, it's just another day, you know. I mean, she said play and pleasure and talked about that like it was just another thing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, and I love that and we can all learn from Kaya.
Speaker 1:Couldn't agree more. Okay, that's a good mic drop moment. Was there anything else that you had during this episode?
Speaker 2:No, I don't think so. I was just very impressed with Kaya's, and that's what I strive to do.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I love that. She really challenges listeners to really think about it and not be afraid to think about it and not be afraid to talk about it and see it as something that's very normal and very integral to what relationships are supposed to be. So, yes, that too, love that. Thank you for being here, and we'll have another debrief episode here in just a moment. I'm going to actually drop both the episodes kind of at the same time, so check out the next debrief with Sarah when we talk about Kindle. I always love talking to Kindle. So, all right, listener, thanks for being here. Until next time, stay safe, stay well.
