Things You Learn in Therapy
Things You Learn in Therapy
Ep 135: Mom Guilt? More Like Mom Truth! with Megan MacCutcheon
What if you could love your children deeply while admitting you don't always love the phase of parenting you're currently experiencing? This refreshingly honest conversation between Dr. Beth Trammell and maternal mental health specialist Megan MacCutcheon dismantles one of the most pervasive myths of motherhood: that we must cherish and enjoy every moment.
The episode begins with Megan sharing a revealing Mother's Day experience where she found herself struggling with her elementary school-aged children's behavior, only to later visit her sister and feel nostalgic for the toddler phase she once navigated. This moment of recognition sparked an important realization—different seasons of motherhood naturally resonate differently with us, and that's perfectly normal.
Throughout their discussion, both experts share personal struggles with specific parenting phases while offering practical strategies for managing the more challenging seasons. From the importance of nervous system regulation through simple breathing exercises to creating intentional transitions between work and home life, they provide accessible tools that don't feel like "one more thing" on an already overwhelming to-do list.
Perhaps most valuable is their exploration of the harmful impact of common phrases like "you're going to miss this" or "enjoy every moment," which, while well-intentioned, often intensify feelings of guilt and inadequacy. Instead, they advocate for a more nuanced perspective that allows for the complexity of parenting emotions—the ability to deeply love your children while simultaneously finding certain phases genuinely difficult.
Whether you're currently in a parenting season that feels overwhelming or simply need permission to acknowledge the full spectrum of your motherhood experience, this episode offers both validation and practical wisdom. Subscribe to hear more conversations that honor the real, unfiltered journey of parenting, and visit https://www.meganmaccutcheon.com/ to access additional resources for navigating motherhood's challenging seasons.
This podcast is meant to be a resource for the general public, as well as fellow therapists/psychologists. It is NOT meant to replace the meaningful work of individual or family therapy. Please seek professional help in your area if you are struggling. #breakthestigma #makewordsmatter #thingsyoulearnintherapy #thingsyoulearnintherapypodcast
If you or someone you know is struggling with mental health concerns, please contact 988 or seek a treatment provider in your area.
If you are a therapist or psychologist and want to be a guest on the show, please complete this form to apply: https://forms.gle/ooy8QirpgL2JSLhP6
Feel free to share your thoughts at www.makewordsmatterforgood.com or email me at Beth@makewordsmatterforgood.com
www.bethtrammell.com
Hey, listen, welcome back. I'm your host, Dr Beth Trammell, and this is take two. I am going to do better this time with my intro. I am a psychologist and professor of psychology at Indian University East, where I'm also the director of the master's mental health counseling program.
Speaker 1:Today is actually the Monday after Mother's Day, which, for listener for you it's not that because it takes a minute to get this editing and sent through everything but I am here with the amazing Megan McCutcheon. I'm so glad you said yes to being here again. We always have such a good time together the last time we were here with Nicole. We miss her today and wish her well, but also know that we have some fun things to talk about. And, as we were kind of talking about Mother's Day yesterday, I know you specialize in working with moms, but also you work with other folks too, but really enjoy working with mothers. We came up with a topic today that I think is going to resonate with a lot of people, especially secondary to our day yesterday. So can you introduce yourself to folks and tell us something fun about you right now?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I'm Megan. I specialize in maternal mental health, I have a private practice in the Northern Virginia area and I always love being on this podcast. I love that Like literally, we just jumped on and we're like, what should we talk about today? And I was like, well, this is kind of what my day was like yesterday. So I guess one one fun thing about me is I'll I'll share a little bit about my mother's day experience and that's what led us to decide this is what we're going to talk about today.
Speaker 1:I can't wait to hear, yeah, more details about that, and actually I'll share a little bit about my mother's day too, as we get along in this conversation, and so one of the things that we came up with is this idea of kind of seasons of motherhood, and you actually just put out a blog post about this, and so we'll reference that also. Folks can check that out. You actually have a great email newsletter. I love there are certain like I unsubscribe. I have a friend who was like I didn't know you were on there.
Speaker 2:That's good I aggressively unsubscribe.
Speaker 1:This is what my friend told me. I aggressively unsubscribe to things, but I don't unsubscribe. I actually read your emails. I love that you send great content. It's not something that I'm like swipe delete. I don't want to hear it, but you wrote this blog post about seasons of motherhood and so let's just like, let's just dig into that.
Speaker 2:Yeah Well, first of all, thanks for being on my mail list. I had no idea you were on it and I never know who's reading or who's not. But I've made a goal to myself to try and like, post something, send something out, you know, on a regular basis, so it's nice to know that you're on there. Well, I appreciate it. And anybody else that wants to read my random ramblings yeah, I love them. Join the list. Yeah, yeah, so okay.
Speaker 2:So I'll tell you a little bit about my mother's day yesterday. It was interesting because we, my kids, are elementary school age and they woke up, got on screens, ipads. I ended up dragging them off. We went out, did a nice Mother's Day brunch, then my daughter had a volleyball game, and then we came home and they wanted to get back on the iPads and I was like I do not want to feel this whining and I just left. I just got my keys, I'm like I'm going to go do some errands.
Speaker 2:So I left the house, went and did some stuff and then I ended up going over to my sister's house. She has three little kids and we had made a mother's day present for my mom, so I had to go get their handprints to finish something off, and I just sat with them outside for a little while watching them play with their water table and I just felt like so fulfilled. And I just felt like so fulfilled and it just occurred to me. I'm like you know what I really miss this stage of motherhood, like I'm not digging the phase that I'm in currently, and especially this time of year in the school year with so many demands, and I immediately went home.
Speaker 2:I had another blog post scheduled for today, but I canceled it and punted it to next week and decided to write about this, and I actually had a draft I started a little while ago about this idea of it's okay to not love every season of motherhood, and I had just jotted down some notes, but I flushed it all out and was just really thinking, I think, like as moms, where we get these messages, motherhood is this like wonderful, thankless, amazing job that we should cherish. It's the best job ever, and I work with so many people that feel guilty when they're not loving it, and so the message I just want to be able to talk through today and put out there is you're not going to love every phase, every moment, every day of motherhood and that's okay.
Speaker 1:I love that we are bringing light to this because I think you're absolutely right. I think we hear in a million ways that being a mom is the greatest gift and our kids are greatest gift. And I know those things, I believe those things to be true in my soul and even the things that I know are gifts in my life. I don't have to love them at every moment and every phase that they're in, and I think it's a very isolating feeling. I think it's a very isolating thought when a person might say this is hard and I don't like this phase I think about.
Speaker 1:For me, the breastfeeding phase was particularly un-fun I think that's a word but that phase was always hard with every kid. It was very hard for a number of reasons. But I think even then I look back and I think I remember so many moments, so many countless moments where it was like I'm supposed to love this, I'm supposed to cherish this, I'm supposed to be bonding incessantly, while it feels like they are tearing parts of me apart. I mean, that was kind of the thought process that I had sometimes and I felt a lot of guilt about it. And I think there are other phases of life that other people can relate to where they feel really guilty and maybe have never said it out loud.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I think the thing to point out is that it can be different for everybody. I personally loved the newborn phase and I work with so many moms postpartum who that is such a struggle, the sleepless nights, the breastfeeding you know breastfeeding was was not a walk in the park, but I did get to like a rhythm where I did have those moments where you know like I would pay money right now to go back for just a day. I don't want to do a full time but, you know, just a moment to re-experience it. And and everybody's different, like there's some moments that people do love and cherish and there's other moments that people hate and everybody has their own sort of pros and cons list and it doesn't have to be the same.
Speaker 1:I so agree and appreciate that. And what you had said earlier, before we started recording, is you know, some people really love the infant stage, some like the toddler, the toddler stage, and then we get to where they can. You know we're not changing diapers and you're bringing a diaper bag, and they're more independent. And I just really like started to think like, oh, of course that makes sense. It makes sense that we don't have to love Not every phase is going to be our very favorite phase. It's okay to be like this isn't my favorite and also it's okay to be like I don't necessarily love this phase. I know it's just a phase and they'll move on to the next thing. But I started to think like oh yeah, I don't love everything about anything all the time.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I people joke about like you know, there's no class on how to like be the perfect parent, there's no manual on parenting and at the same time we're like we're thrown into this and then expected to do it, you know, in every phase. And so just giving grace to like I, like I was when I was with my nieces and nephew I was just like I'm really good with toddlers, like I can really connect and everything, and I'm like I don't feel like I have the same level of patience with my you know, elementary school kids right now. But also it's different when it's like not your own kids versus somebody else's. And I think just stepping outside of that guilt and giving ourselves permission like it's okay to not have it all together all the time.
Speaker 1:I don't love it. It doesn't mean that I don't love my kid. I just don't love this phase where we're in right now, in this moment Right, and even when you're in this phase right Like, I remember some phases. It feels like the like eight, nine, 10 year old phase where they're very kind of concrete thinking, they're very focused on fairness and you know, being in a, you know a family of, you know there's four kids, and it feels like it's never I can't, I can't ever make it fair. You know like life's not fair.
Speaker 2:It's never going to be fair.
Speaker 1:Just I know it just like drove me crazy when my mom used to say that. But I like understand that it's like, yeah, sometimes he gets the last Oreo and you have to eat something else. I don't know, it's just not there. So anyway, I remember like thinking I don't necessarily love this moment right now, but it doesn't mean I have to hate the whole phase, but I think it's fine to like pause for this like hard. I hate that I have to do this part of things and then tomorrow it's going to be okay.
Speaker 2:And yeah, I think so many times women put the pressure on themselves to love it all, to be perfect in every moment. And if we really break it down into motherhood and seasons, or even our day and moments, and knowing some are going to be good, some are going to be not good and that's okay, we can embrace the good and the bad we can embrace the good and the bad.
Speaker 1:You know, one of the things that I have appreciated is having mom friends who are at various stages of motherhood. So I remember, like conversations with mom friends whose kids are, you know, five or six years older than my kids, and I remember hearing them talk about struggles and I was at that moment like whew, I'm glad I don't have to deal with that, which, you know, kind of allowed me to pause and be grateful for the moment I'm in. But now, five years later, I'm like, oh, I remember that conversation with that friend and the situation they were in, and now I'm grateful that I have had that conversation because it gives me a little bit of insight to where I'm at now.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, it reminds me of the episode that we did last time with Nicole, where we talked about community care and how important it is to have that sort of village of support and those other moms who you can validate your experience with, bounce ideas off of, hear sort of what's coming down the pipeline. I get asked a lot does it get easier If somebody is in that sleepless newborn phase? Is this going to last forever? I know it's not going to last forever, but does it get easier? And my answer is it's a different kind of hard. It's all got its moments of hardness, but it's also got its moments of beauty. Sometimes we don't see that until it's in the rear view mirror. But yeah, it's so important to just be able to have a community of people that can help kind of hold your hand through it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I love that. I actually have a similar message to folks when I talk to moms of preschoolers and they're like, oh, your kids are older, you don't have any of these issues. I was like, no, I just have bigger issues or different issues. You know, like they're just big kid issues, you know not, I'm not worried about paint mixing, where they mix the red and the yellow together, you know, which really would bother me. But I'm worried about, like you know, driving a car which is just hard in a different way Again, not necessarily harder or worse or whatever, but just it's just different hard.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, and I feel like people, yeah, feel guilty for it or feel like there's a lot of like shoulds. I hear like a lot of people like you know oh, I shouldn't be complaining about this So-and-so has it worst, or you know well, at least I was able to have children or whatever. At least there's a lot of that, at least in this tendency to dismiss it, and I think that's another message I'd love to put out there to just get away from the shoulds and the at leasts and like know that there's space for like. If you want to complain about your kid mixing the red and the yellow, that's totally fine. If you have fears about your teenager, drive like. All of this is valid and important and worth bringing up and talking about, giving your space, yourself space to deal with and worth bringing up and talking about giving yourself space to deal with.
Speaker 1:I love that message Get away from shoulds, and at least I think those are not helpful to anyone. It doesn't validate our feelings. It doesn't make our lived experience our own truth. It also means you can't just sit and wallow in self-pity all day, but it does mean, like, allow yourself some space to you know, feel however you're feeling. You know one of the things that I wonder in your work with folks is there a good way to kind of get curious during these seasons where you maybe love the season less and you know, is there and is there a way to have that be something we become more aware about in ourselves? And I'll share a story and then maybe you can share how you kind of help folks if they get into this phase. Besides, just honor, that it's hard and honor it's okay if you don't really love this phase.
Speaker 1:But I'm going to share when my two oldest were younger, they were really close in age, they were about 18 months apart and I was in school and I was working part-time and essentially I just had just too many things going on which probably a lot of folks can relate to and I would get home and my kids would have immeasurable questions, just question and question and question and what are we having for dinner? And what if I don't like it? And do I have to eat my French fries? Do I have to? I mean, it was just like and I'm a person who identifies as being an introvert, and so by the time I got home at night and I had kind of already used up all of my introverted energy on other things and I got home and I was like I cannot stand that my kids have verbal language to just vomit all over me when I get home.
Speaker 1:But I realized that that was sort of more about me and kind of my current situation and kind of my lack of balance or my difficulty in finding a way to create more emotional space for them when I got home, rather than like this phase is really hard. Of course it may have been a little bit hard, but really it was more like I'm not helping myself when I have too many things going on and I don't have an emotional space for this developmental phase that they're in, which is asking a lot of questions, learning more about the world around them. So I don't know, megan, what are your thoughts on kind of helping folks if they are in a season where they don't love, like how could we get curious about what's happening?
Speaker 2:Well, okay, so much just came to my mind there. But what the first thing I'll say and this relates back to, I think, something that Nicole talked about in her one of her talks with you on mom rage is this concept. This is from Mina Dubin's book Mom Rage, where she has this great analogy of taking your anger to tea. So I love, did you, did you, did Nicole, talk about that? Do you remember that? Yeah, so this idea of like, when we feel the frustration, when we feel the overwhelm, whatever the emotion, is taking that feeling to tea, like sitting down, like you said, being curious with it and so kind of being curious about like why am I not loving this phase? Like what's going on for me and you already answered it when you're noticing I come home at the end of a long day and my kids are asking me a gazillion questions and all my introverted energy is depleted, like you answer the question on why you're depleted, you don't really have any more charge in your battery, and so when we get curious and we kind of find out why, then we can start solving, problem solving.
Speaker 2:And then the other thing that comes up for me is, like I preach so much about like nervous system regulation and how it is to regulate our nervous system, and so I have a very similar experience, and part of why I'm not loving like the phase we're in right now is because it's very similar coming home at the end of the day fighting with people to like have you done your homework?
Speaker 2:Stop getting the 25th snack. We're about to have dinner. Just like get the freaking homework done, stop fighting with each other, stop distracting each other and recognizing for myself that part of why that's hard is because I'm feeling dysregulated. Like I went from thing one to thing two without really having this break. I preach and like have this pause of like all right, I got to ground myself in order to be able to handle what's coming at me, and that was easier to do for me when they were little because it wasn't the constant barrage of questions, and so it just takes a little bit more thoughtfulness and mindfulness to be able to do that now, and I hear moms all the time like kind of grown at me, saying that because they're like oh, one more thing I have to remember to do and one more thing I have to add to my plate. But we can make it really simple and it's so important.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I just finished a book called real self-care and they talk kind of about that. That self-care is sometimes pushed as just another thing that we have to do and I love that we can say, yes, it might initially feel like one more thing you have to do, but really it is the thing that your body needs to then be able to do the rest of the things that you have to do.
Speaker 1:And it only takes a moment. You kind you, you kind of like you know folks can't see the video, but Megan basically just like, put her hand on her, on her chest, deep breath. I mean it was just like a second right, just like a few seconds that can help ground us, and it may not necessarily protect us from the hundred questions that are coming, but it can just give our body just enough space to come from. Let's say you're at a 95 out of a hundred and then you move to an 80, and then you take maybe another breath to get yourself to a 65, and then you can be able to kind of step into what you have to step into.
Speaker 2:And it's a little bit hard at first because it does feel like one more thing to do, but the more you practice it, the more it becomes just these really, really simple things you can add into your day.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean I have been working with a spiritual director on kind of regulating some various things in my own life, and one of the things we have talked about is finding some sort of routine or symbolic way of kind of walking away from one thing to the next thing and so sort of saying, like I'm leaving these people here, I wish them well when I kind of walk away from a client or a consultee and or a classroom and take a breath and kind of like take my, my hands from my head and I kind of like wash them down my body and like a symbolic way to say like I can't carry them anymore. I'm present with them when I'm with them, and then I can't carry the emotional or spiritual or psychological burden with me. Otherwise I won't have enough of me to give to other people. And so I wonder if you have something like that too? Have you developed a symbolic thing that you kind of do to leave work at work? Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:I supervise residents who are working towards state licensure and this is something that I talked to them about a lot like this importance of having some sort of a visual or a tangible representation Like I know of somebody that has one of those like Tibetan singing bowls in their office and talked about how, like the like ding it at the end of the day or at the beginning of the day to kind of like reset the energy in the room.
Speaker 2:I've heard of people talking about these rituals, like when they walk through a door, a doorway, they take this deep breath and think about, you know, leaving one thing behind. I used to have this colleague that used to. She would drink a lot of water during her therapy sessions and at the end she would like go to the bathroom and pee and be like, okay, I'm peeing out all of that energy today so I can go home to my family sort of recharged, and so I think, yes, it's so important having those things. But it was interesting because, as you were saying that, I was thinking just on the topic of motherhood, how it's hard to ever totally separate, like our kids' problems, our kids' issues, just being that emergency contact, like that's constantly present and so we can't always shift out or shut it off, and so, even more important to be mindful of, like what are the things that we can do to re-ground?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think about parents, moms who are in kind of the like throws of it, like really never ending. You know, like right now my kids are a little bit older third grade, fifth grade, 10th grade, 11th grade and they are at least self-sufficient for periods of time. Right, they'll go outside and play together and then they'll come back in, but while they're outside, I get, like you know, a five minute kind of break from them. But I think about those moms whose kids need basically constant supervision, right, and how it's true, like you don't get tiny breaks, like I get, and I talk with I talk with clients or consultees about using the time you have wisely, right, so I can't make more time in your day. You know, if you can set up a play date and let them go play with someone and you get a little bit of a break, then that's great.
Speaker 1:But I think about, perhaps, like your nighttime routine, after the kids get in bed or after the kids lay down. What are you doing to recharge? Right, and I don't say that with any level of judgment or conviction, because I have been there where it's like it's hard to intentionally recharge because it's so easy just to sort of like, get on your phone after the kids go to sleep and just scroll and kind of numb out, and then still wake up and feel exhausted. And so finding the balance between yeah, sometimes you just want to get in the bed and scroll, but maybe that's not the most restful thing that you could be doing and maybe there's a balance of both, maybe you can still scroll but also find something that's going to create rest in your body.
Speaker 2:And I think it's like the intentionality that you bring. If you're going to choose to scroll, can you tell yourself this is my sort of recharge, this is my downtime, this is how I want to choose it. So, like I'll say to people you know, do you drink a cup of coffee in the morning? How are you drinking it? Are you just like gulping it down as you're trying to get people out the door? Can you sit down and like taste the sip and actually notice it going into your mouth and like down your throat and think about it, as I'm choosing to do this as a self-care thing? Showers are another thing that most of us do a lot of the time. So, you know, can you be mindful of? Like? This is my self-care. I'm imagining that water like washing away the stress.
Speaker 2:I feel like I said this in another episode. I don't know. It's popping into my brain that maybe I've said this before to you. But yeah, so, just finding simple things that you already do and make the intention be this is self-care. If you want to scroll, great, but can it be? This is my self-care? I'm going to tell my body this is a recharge.
Speaker 1:I love that idea of it being intentional, because I do think without that intentionality we just forget about it. We just keep going and keep chugging along and keep surviving. I'll have time for self-care when the kids are older and I'll have time when they. You know you won't have time. You won't have time again, like. I'm here to tell you it's. The time is now to try to be intentional with those things and finding someone that you can talk to if you need to, who can kind of help you find that balance, because I think I think it's a real bummer that's not the word I want to use but that that we just feel like well, I have to push through this season, even though I don't like it. I have to push through it because the next season will be better.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the analogy that I was imagining was like treading, wadding, treading, treading water, treading water and being like I just got to keep going, got to keep going, versus like take the time to like, oh, let me climb on this raft and it'll be a little bit more comfortable. But yeah, I think so often we just kind of keep thinking of like got to keep, got to keep going, and it's useful in what we're talking about in terms of like looking at things as seasons, like keep going, there's going to be another season, but also you don't have to just like power through, you can stop and sort of take a moment to make it more tolerable.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I know this sounds it's going to sound cheesy and probably annoying, but to what you said earlier, like every season does have its struggle and its joy and its loveliness, you know. And so I think I've been in plenty of seasons where I'm just like I feel like I'm pulling my hair out and when I'm in that phase I have to like stop myself, I have to literally slow myself down to say, and what is good in this phase? Because I think we often that sort of like saying where you know, blink, and this season will be gone and you know all of that like cutesy, cutesy stuff. But it is really true, right? How can we stay present? How can we try to force ourselves to be aware of the good things that are happening in the season, even amidst the ones that we don't love that much?
Speaker 2:the good things that are happening in the season, even amidst the ones that we don't love that much. Yeah. Yeah, the blog article that I posted today referenced this country music song that talks about you're going to miss this, you're going to want this back, and it's this idea that I always remind myself. Okay, this is really stressful and I don't love this moment of people spilling milk on the floor and whining and fighting and whatever. But I know there's going to be a time in the future where I'm like, oh, I would love to have a day just back in that moment of my life. So sometimes that can bring some like levity to it, and this idea of like, okay, this isn't the end of the world, and one day I'm going to look back and be like that wasn't so bad. That sometimes helps too.
Speaker 1:I love that we were at a birthday party with some other folks and there were like grandparents there whose kids had kind of grown and flown and they were like, oh, what I wouldn't give to have just the noise of the house back and what I wouldn't give to have my days and weeks being filled with kids activities and soccer practice and band and all the things. And for me I just found myself pre grieving in that moment and then I sort of didn't. I don't know. I just think it's complicated. It's like, oh, I don't want to think about that yet and I know it should. Should here we go with that should word? Right, I know it should prompt me to be like, oh, and this is what I'm grateful for in this season. But I found myself just sort of being like I don't really want to think about that yet.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it reminds me of something else I posted maybe a couple of months ago about this idea of like how annoying it is when people say like, oh, enjoy every moment and go fast Does. And like. I posted something about like enjoy the moments that are enjoyable, the rest you don't have to enjoy those. Let's just acknowledge that they're there and it's part good, part bad. But yeah, I feel like there's so many like well-intended phrases out there that are like True, but also sometimes not that helpful. And again it goes back to that like not having guilt, not beating ourselves up when we're not enjoying every moment.
Speaker 1:You know, when we're not enjoying every moment, is it okay to be like I love my kid and I don't really like him right now? Yes, oh, my gosh. Yep, like this phase. It's hard to like them in this phase and I love them and I'm trying to kind of push myself to be in that phase of remembering the love for them, but by golly. When they're lying about homework, when they're sneaking treats in their bedroom, I mean, I just think about some of the things that are at the core, things that bother us as moms or whatever it might be for you, right, and you're like ugh.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Now I will say and then I'm going to let you kind of share your thoughts I think it is detrimental to our kids to tell them I don't like you right now. I think that's detrimental. I don't think they forget. I also don't love and I know that I'm a little bit different here than other psychologists but I don't love when we say I love you, I don't like the way you're acting, or I think you're acting like a jerk. I think kids only hear mom doesn't like me or mom thinks I'm a jerk. I think there are ways that we can talk about the behavior that they're doing. I don't love that you're lying. I think that can be really clear. But I think in my mind, if I had an opportunity to share with a trusted friend and and I could admit, like my kid is kind of hard to like right now and I'm trying to find my path through it and I want to strengthen my relationship with them even amidst this kind of hard time, I don't know what are your thoughts on all that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, oh my gosh, I have so many thoughts. Well, first of all, it's that, yes, we can love our kid and dislike them or their behavior at the same time. I think we talked on a prior episode about this idea of like the both, and we can have two of these experiences at the same time. That seem conflictual, but we actually can hold them at the same time. And, yeah, I think what was coming up for me was, yeah, probably not great to tell them I don't like you right now. Maybe put it more in the behavior, I don't like this. But I'm thinking more of like.
Speaker 2:I talk a lot with moms who have moments where they have what I call a mom meltdown moment or a mom rage experience, where they blow up at their kids and then there's so much guilt but there's so much value in the repair. And so I think, if it's sort of from that same angle of like modeling, teaching our kids, showing them how we're impacted by you know, various interactions, so like being able to say to them in the I statement you know, I feel really frustrated and overwhelmed when you lie to me. This is the problem with it. So really kind of being more thorough around, like the what are, are the ripple effects and the why is this a problem? Versus just I don't like this and I don't like this about you.
Speaker 2:It's hard, though, and I think we're not always going to get it right. I mean, there's obviously going to be these moments where we just say the wrong thing in the heat of the moment, but we can come back from it and have these really important teaching moment conversations, even when they are really young. I think one of my theories is that we don't give little little kids enough credit for like how much they understand, and so just thinking about again how can we get grounded so we can have those conversations, because we can't really do it. We don't end up having the most appropriate conversations when we're in an ungrounded state. I just said a whole bunch there. I hope that made sense and you followed my train of thought.
Speaker 1:I think it's great and I agree with you. I mean I was in a classroom of two-year-olds today and I was, you know, having very real conversations about what I needed them to do and how it impacted their friends when they hit them in the face and, you know, then taught them another way, that they could say hello instead of smacking their friend in the face. And I agree, I mean I think even as young as two and three years old we can have these conversations about expectations, about repair, about relationships. I mean, obviously they're. They need lots of training, so they need lots of repetition, but I agree, I mean, obviously they need lots of training, so they need lots of repetition, but I agree. I mean I think we just underestimate their relational skills, even at a young age.
Speaker 1:One of the things that I try to preach or talk or practice in my own life is preparing for what we sort of might anticipate when I would come home from days at work where I was in private practice for a long time and I worked a really long day on Wednesday I just had one long client day and I would come home and some Wednesdays I would leave at seven and I wouldn't even see my kids at all, and so I knew that when I came home, my kids were going to need all of me, they would need the best of me, and I would sort of like talk myself in my like 10 minute commute home I would like talk to myself about they're going to have lots of questions, they're going to want to like hug you and be near you and they're going to want to rub your face which, by the way, I just dislike immensely.
Speaker 1:But I like I like knew that that's what they were going to need for me, and so I would like almost give myself a pep talk. You know, like I was like in the huddle with myself, trying to prepare myself and saying like it's okay that they want to love me this way. They haven't seen me all day and I can tolerate this for the next hour before they go to bed, and I can remind myself that it's okay and I can take a break if I need to and say like, okay, mommy's going to go back and change my clothes and I'll come back. But I tried to prepare myself as well as I could for those moments that I knew might be hard.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think that's really important, almost like a dress rehearsal for it. Then it allows you to be more present for it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because I think some of the time we kind of know a little bit about what we dislike about this phase and some of it we can tolerate a little bit differently, perhaps with kind of appreciating our reaction to things and being like I know that it's going to bother me when they ask me the same question for the 25th time today.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, and I like that you kind of put like a time on it, like, okay, it's going to be like an hour, so it's going to end. I have a client who actually tattooed this too, shall pass on herself, because that was kind of the mantra of like, okay, this isn't going to last forever. When we know that it's temporary, it can bring a little more tolerance.
Speaker 1:Yeah, my home screen is. Not everything has to matter, because sometimes I just get really like we're all fired up about things. That I'm like this actually, in the grand scheme of things, doesn't matter at all, and it's okay, not everything has to matter, any last thoughts you have before we wrap up today.
Speaker 2:Oh, I just hope that any listeners who tuned in to hear this episode just give themselves a little more grace and a little bit more space to know that, whatever they're navigating right now, that is challenging. Whether it's in motherhood or not, it's a season. Give yourself some space, take some time out from self-care, you'll get through it.
Speaker 1:And I will sort of encourage folks to check out your blog, subscribe to your list, because I think the beauty in folks like you is that you're unashamed of sharing shortcomings, right.
Speaker 1:I think that that has been just so valuable that come and kind of share, like, yeah, I had a mom meltdown, you know just over the weekend I had a mom meltdown and this just happened, and here's what happened, you know, and so bravo to you for being able to be vulnerable and share those things, because I think they are really valuable. So how do people find you?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, On my website is. I have a lot of different stuff out there, but the way you can link to everything is just my website, which is megamccutcheoncom. I'm also on Instagram and, yeah, I love sharing the tools and, like I'm a mom, I'm in the thick of it too, and you know, it's so valuable for me personally to write about a lot of these experiences, because I kind of remind myself what I need to do in the moment. I'm a therapist. I know a lot of the tools, I teach a lot of the tools, but I got to remember to use them too. So I share a lot of tips about what we're talking about nervous system regulation tools and whatnot so would love to be able to share that with anybody who needs more.
Speaker 1:I love it. I'm so grateful, so grateful for that. All right listener, thank you. I'm grateful for you too. Until next time, stay safe, stay well, ciao.
