Ep184: Teaching Integrity to Children: From Little White Lies to Hard Truths

The hardest part of teaching kids honesty is that we want truth and we also want peace, and those two don’t always arrive together. In this crossover episode with Core Essentials, we explore integrity, and we define it in the most practical way possible: being truthful in your words and in your actions. Leslie Bolser and psychologist Dr. Beth Trammell talk through what that looks like in real family life, from the tiny lies of early childhood to the higher-stakes half-truths that can show up in middle school and the teen years.

We get honest about why kids lie in the first place. For young children, lying can be a simple survival strategy: it feels easier than facing trouble or discomfort. Rather than treating every lie like a character flaw, we focus on calm, consistent coaching that protects the parent-child connection while still holding the line on family values. The goal is to plant seeds of integrity that grow over time, not demand perfect truth-telling from a four-year-old who is still learning cause, effect, and consequences.

Then we move into the real gut-check for many parents: when older kids lie and it actually hurts. Dr. Trammell explains why your first reaction when a child admits something hard can increase or decrease future honesty. We also talk about modeling integrity as adults, including those “blurry line” moments where we rationalize small dishonesties, and how repair can be one of the strongest integrity lessons you ever teach. You’ll leave with concrete language, a more empathetic lens, and a long-view mindset for building trust.

If this helps, subscribe, share it with a parent friend, and leave a review so more families can find these tools. What’s one situation where you want to respond with more calm the next time truth shows up?

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Feel free to share your thoughts at www.makewordsmatterforgood.com or email me at Beth@makewordsmatterforgood.com

Transcript

Welcome And Integrity Preview

SPEAKER_01 0:09

Hello, listener. Welcome back. I'm your host of Kidsy Stays Need Us to Make Words Matter for Good. This is Beth Tremell, and I am here to share an episode with you that I recorded with my dear friend and colleague, uh Leslie Bolser. She is from Core Essential Values. And each month, she and I get together to create a podcast for Core Essentials that I cross-post here for you all as well. I love Core Essentials and the work they do. And so if you are a person who might be interested in uh a curriculum that focuses on one word a month, it's what I love, right? It's just one word a month to focus on within the school building that then translates to just great things that happen at home. Also, check out their website. You'll hear more about it in the episode today. But I'm sharing this here with y'all. It's about integrity. It is something that I think is really tough for all of us. And so I hope that you tune in to this cross-posted episode with Core Essential Values. Thanks, friends.

SPEAKER_00 1:18

All right, welcome back, everybody. Um, we're really excited to talk about this word this month. This is a tough one. This is uh this is a really, really good one to talk about because I think as parents, this is something we all face with our kids a lot. So I really am excited to dig in today with Dr. Beth Tremel. So why don't you go ahead and introduce yourself and then I'll introduce myself and we'll get started. Hello, listener.

SPEAKER_01 1:40

I'm Beth Tremell. I'm a psychologist and an associate professor of psychology at Indiana University East, where I'm the director of the Master's in Mental Health Counseling program. And I also just love everything words. I love everything parent-child connection. And so I love getting to talk about hard words and kind of hard ideas each month to try to help us all be better parents.

SPEAKER_00 2:03

Yeah, that's amazing. And I'm Leslie Bolser. I'm with Core Essential Values. We are a curriculum and resource company. We primarily work with schools from pre-K through 12th grade, but we also work with businesses and community members. And today we're talking to parents.

Why Young Kids Lie

SPEAKER_00 2:18

So the word that we're talking about this month is October, and the word that we're talking about is integrity. And the way we talk about integrity this month is being truthful both in your words and in your actions. So I'm gonna kind of go a little bit into both of those parts of that definition, but I really want to start out talking to you about um young kids. My kids are older, but I remember when they were little, they would lie. They would tell me things that I knew weren't true that meant that mattered not at all. That there were just these simple little things that didn't matter at all. Talk to me about that. Explain that phenomenon in child development.

SPEAKER_01 2:57

Yeah. Uh so everyone lies. Let's just say that first. Everyone lies. So it is really important for us to recognize this thing that we do as parents, which is get really frustrated or angry when our kids lie to us when we know logically that everyone lies. So it is a part of child development for kids to go through phases of lying. And sometimes it's more than others, right? I actually did a whole podcast on one of my other podcasts. I did a whole episode on lying behavior. So maybe we'll link that here. But yeah, that's a good idea. But it really is like for our little ones, they're learning it's easier to lie than to be in trouble. Uh-huh. Because when you tell the truth, particularly when it's around something that you did that was wrong, that's not very fun. Right. So our kids are learning already how to survive in the world, you know, and their way of doing that is to not tell the truth. So I think this is an important thing to realize as parents that you we're just planting seeds. I mean, over and over, this is the same, the thing I say all the time, right? Our little ones are gonna lie to us. It is a part of child development. It doesn't have to be an acceptable behavior, but we have to recognize like if we lose our mind every time our kids lie to us, we're gonna have a really poor relationship with our little guy or a little gal, right? Or a little person. So I think it's important to recognize like it's totally fine to say, I know what you're saying is not the truth. And in our family, we believe in telling the truth, even if that means that we might have a consequence or we might, you know, have to talk about things, or we might not get the things we want. I think it's important for us to remember we're just continually teaching them what it means to have integrity. They're not gonna show it when they're four. I mean, it's just not gonna happen. You know, there might be some ways where you're like, oh, look at that. My kid did the right thing. You know, you get a note from the teacher where, you know, your kid did the right thing and then you feel really good. And you remember that in the other million moments where you're correcting a lot of behavior.

SPEAKER_00 5:09

Yeah.

When Older Kids Raise The Stakes

SPEAKER_00 5:10

So I want to talk a little bit about older kids now, elementary, middle, high school, how wherever you want to go with this one. But you said something interesting when we were talking about young kids, and you talked about how sometimes it's easier to not tell the truth than to, you know, have a consequence or have to look somebody in the eye and say it or whatever. So that's certainly true when kids are older as well, right? The consequences are a little harsher, maybe the stakes are a little higher. And um, I know as a parent that being lied to by a five-year-old wasn't fun, but it wasn't that big of a deal, right? It was like, did you put your toys away? Yes. And then I walk in the room and they're not. It's not the biggest deal. Being lied to by a middle schooler or a teenager, on the other hand, can be really different. So is the approach the same as a parent, or do we approach that differently as they get older?

SPEAKER_01 6:00

Well, I think we have to first take a hard look in the mirror. This is not fun for even me. You know, I have two teenagers and two little guys, two elementary agers and and two uh high schoolers. And I have to really take a look in the mirror to say, what are my reactions when they tell me something hard or when they admit to something? Like if we ever get that moment where they tell me the truth and it's something that is going to get them in trouble or something that's uncomfortable or inconvenient for me, what is my reaction? Because that reaction is going to either increase the likelihood or decrease the likelihood that later they're going to tell us something else. And so I have to look back at some of my initial reactions, you know, when a silly example, right? My 15-year-old just borrowed my umbrella out of my car. And I said, make sure you do not lose my umbrella. It stays in my car, it matters to me. I've like, I've learned that to be like a professional grown-up, I should not just like cover my head with a hood or something. You know, sometimes professionals lose a number. Yeah, you know, it's okay. We should all invest in maybe an umbrella. So she lo and behold, called me and said, Mom, I am so, so sorry. I forgot the umbrella in my friend's car and it's gonna rain tomorrow. And my reaction, though I told her, please don't do this, though it is convenient for me on the day that it rains that I don't have the umbrella, I said thank you for coming to me and thank you for telling me. And I would love to have my umbrella tomorrow, but I understand that it was an accident, you know? And like it took me to like pause. Don't be angry, don't be frustrated. Like she didn't mean to forget it. You know what I'm saying? So all of this to say, I and look, friends, I don't get this right all the time. I'm sharing one example where I actually got it right as a model and a very simple example. There have been plenty of times where I was like, you did what? What are you talking about? We have to recognize that in those moments when we're kind of losing our mind on our teenagers, they're not gonna be likely to come to us when we want them to be honest. So recognizing like take that breath before you respond, think about whether it really matters in the grand scheme of things so that they will have confidence to come to you when the stakes might be higher.

SPEAKER_00 8:21

Yeah, that that's really good. You know, thinking about does this really matter in the grand scheme of things, I think is just a total stumbling block for me and for all parents, right? When just in that moment, we're like, what? And then we lose sight of sort of the longer view of parenting and what the little decisions mean for our relationship with them and for you know what they what they internalize as they're growing

Modeling Integrity And Making Repairs

SPEAKER_00 8:48

up. And along those lines, I want to ask you about integrity as a parent. We always talk about you are really great about telling us as parents to model behavior and to do what you want your kids to do. I feel like integrity can be really tricky because as adults, we have a way of maybe rationalizing improperly some of our decisions that may not look like they're very truthful on the outside. Or sometimes it is the right thing to do. We just have a bigger picture that the kids don't have. And so we know maybe that a decision is okay to be made. But in any case, when our kids are watching us, maybe just do a little more than help on their homework, or you know, get a little rowdy at that soccer match, or whatever it is when we aren't being people of integrity. I don't know, just speak to that a little bit as parents. I know you always say to role model what we want to see from kids, but this one just seems a little deeper to me.

SPEAKER_01 9:47

Yeah, I mean, I think it's just hard. I think we kind of live in a world of contradictory all the time, you know. So I want my kids to tell me if something is going on, or if like one of their siblings or one of their friends is doing something that isn't what I would expect them to do. I want them to say something to their sibling or their friend. But then if they tattle, then I'm like, stop telling stop talking to me. You know, it's like we do a lot of these contradictory things that make it hard, I think, sometimes for our kids to know. So, you know, hey, you're gonna be 10 today instead of 12 because it's cheaper at the movie theater, or you can eat off the kids' menu, or you know, those examples. And I've I'm guilty, I've done it. And in the scheme of things, it's like, okay, I'm saving three dollars, but I'm sort of saying, well, there are blurry lines around telling the truth or not telling the truth. And so I think it's important that when we blur lines or when we realize that we have blurred lines, we just have to go back and have a teaching moment, right? So coming back to our kids and saying, like, look, you know, here's the thing when we talked about that earlier today, or when this happened earlier today, that isn't necessarily in line with who we want to be as a family or whatever. It's totally great to go back and repair any sort of misstep we make as parents. I think the thing I often reassure people is I mess things up every day and I just reflect at the end of the day or in the middle of the day about am I staying true to who I am as a parent, as a person, as a friend, as a, you know, fill in the blank. And when I'm not, how can I repair that? You know, one of the things we talked about in the video with your kids this month was how we often don't regret doing the right thing when it's hard. We often regret when we don't do the right thing, right? We regret having done the wrong thing. So we we talked with the kids this month in their school about that in the curriculum. And yeah, I just am reminded that we want to live a life of integrity that includes being true to who we are and being truthful in what we say and do. And that tends to minimize our regret later. And that is a much healthier place to be overall.

SPEAKER_00 12:19

Yeah, really good advice. All

Empathy For Hard Truths

SPEAKER_00 12:22

right. Before we wrap up, anything else you want to say about being truthful with your words or with your actions?

SPEAKER_01 12:28

I just want to come back to that. It's hard, right? Like it shouldn't be hard. I mean, I can hear myself as a listener being like, well, it's not hard to tell the truth until you get into moments where it is hard to tell the truth. And it might make us anxious or stressed or worried when we have to say something hard to somebody that is truthful and kind, but it might still be hard. And so if you're a listener and you're like, Yeah, I mean, sometimes it's hard for me to tell the truth, recognize that it's equally or more so hard for your kids to tell the truth. So when you catch them not telling the truth, try to just have a different layer of empathy and compassion for them and then have a teaching moment with them. You know, what was it that made it hard to tell the truth? What was going through your head? Talk me through what you were worried about or scared or whatever, because it can be really hard.

SPEAKER_00 13:16

Yeah, that's great. I think I'm just gonna get a t-shirt that says an extra layer of empathy and compassion. I just want to walk around and remind people that that's what I need all day long. Just an extra layer of empathy and compassion. Please, please, just have it, please.

Resources And Closing

SPEAKER_00 13:31

Uh, so if you want to know more about core essentials and the work that we do and what's going on in your child school, you can learn about us at coreessentials.org, or you can find us online um at CE values on social media channels. And Dr. Beth, what about you?

SPEAKER_01 13:45

How can folks find you? So, my website is make wordsmatterforgood.com. The podcast that I was sharing earlier about the lying behavior is called Kidsi's Days. Need us to make words matter for good. You can find that anywhere you listen to podcasts. And the other podcast I have is called Things You'll Learn in Therapy, where I interview therapists and psychologists from all over the world and they share their favorite therapy techniques. Um, you can catch me on either of those places.

SPEAKER_00 14:14

Excellent. Awesome. Well, will you come back next month and we have a little bit of a lighter topic next month that I love to spend a little time thinking with you about? Yep, that'd be perfect. Excellent.